Zakaria on Beck on the Percentage of Muslims Who Are Terrorists

Okay, enough with the poignant videos about the transitory nature of human relationships, as depicted through dance, animation, and music. Let’s talk about something important: Glenn Beck’s innumeracy:

102 Responses to “Zakaria on Beck on the Percentage of Muslims Who Are Terrorists”

  1. shcb Says:

    Looks like Beck got mud hutted, I wonder when he stopped beating his wife?

  2. enkidu Says:

    “how in other words would one describe glen beck?”

    psychotic lunatic?
    hate radio preacher dipsh!t?
    racist cracker moran?
    wwnj fucktard?

    I’ll go with wwnj fucktard

  3. shcb Says:

    I don’t know what that has to do with what he said or how it is being (mis)characterized

  4. enkidu Says:

    yes of course, at the end of a four minute clip FZ asks “how in other words would one describe glen beck?” I can see how my giving several examples of descriptions for glen beck might be confusing. If you are a complete and total fool that is. Or partisan hack. Or both in your case.

    more descriptors for weepy glen:
    right wing terrorist?
    minister of misinformation?
    shameless huckster?
    get rich quick fraudster?
    blathering jackass?

    I still think wwnj fucktard is a good fit.

  5. shcb Says:

    I see, I ddin’t watch the whole clip, but that still doesn’t answer my question, I don’t like Beck that well either but what does that have to do with this subject? He was technically correct, he has explained the 10% number before and he is probably being generous using that definition. The only way this criticisim works is for the liberal to tell us what Beck meant just as the only way for your mud hut criticism only works if you get to define my thoughts.

  6. knarlyknight Says:

    shcb, do yourself a favor and watch the whole clip two or three times until it sinks through your reich wing programming.

    I think “Glenn Beck, the Moran’s Idol” is a good fit.

  7. knarlyknight Says:

    err, “Glenn Beck: the Morans’ Idol” is better.

  8. knarlyknight Says:

    Wikileaks…hmm… here’s some anti-israel propaganda (not anti-semetic) that exposes Obama’s lies.

    shcb, recall the arguments over whether Bush lied or not? Well, I think Obama’s statements in the clip are about equal on the scale, and thus I would call them lies too. The question is, do you defend Obama’s misleading statements as you did Bush, or do you subscribe to a double standard???

  9. knarlyknight Says:

    uh, you need the link…

  10. shcb Says:

    I think the author of the piece is probably the one that is misleading, not Obama. Iran wants to kill us, they want to use nukes to do it, they want to build those nukes in their reactors, simple as that.

    Reagan said “the solution to most problems isn’t complicated, it’s just hard”

  11. shcb Says:

    About Beck, you are missing my point, I don’t care if Beck is a child rapist, they are misstaing what he said to a degree. They are redifining what he meant so it fits their argument.

  12. NorthernLite Says:

    If there were actually over a hundred million Islamic terrorists out there America probably wouldn’t exist by now.

    But if you keep people like Beck out there long enough spewing garbage and inciting hate and I’m sure you’ll get to that number.

    I see no difference between Beck and the Imam in Iran inciting his followers with propaganda. No difference at all.

  13. enkidu Says:

    This is another wwnj classic (along the lines of mudhut countries)

    “I don’t care if Beck is a child rapist”

    So you know something we don’t know? That would be a first.
    Or is it first hand knowledge?
    just asking questions

    Beck addressed FZ’s comment directly: by calling for him to be murdered.

    You stay classy wrong wing nut jobs. Stay classy!

  14. shcb Says:

    The ball is in their court, if they stop trying to kill us and Beck continues his rants you will have a good point. My guess is that if they stop Beck will stop, if Beck stops they won’t. That is the difference.

  15. shcb Says:

    This is what Beck said

    If I said to Fareed Zakaria, ‘Fareed, I’m not going to kill you, but I support the people who do want to kill you,’ am I a problem, Fareed? Yes! Yes, I would be a problem! If you said to somebody, ‘Hey Glenn, I’m not going to kill you myself, but man… I don’t have any problem with anybody who wants to take their bare hands and snap your neck’–excuse me?

    You are quite disingenuous aren’t you Enky

    Then he said:

    Finally, Beck said that “it doesn’t matter” what the real number of terrorists in the world is. “It does matter how many people will stand up against it,” he said.

    How true.

  16. Smith Says:

    Glenn Beck is a waste of oxygen.

    Hey shcb, when did you move to Kentucky?

  17. NorthernLite Says:

    And the Imam in Iran says “if they stop trying to kill us and invading our lands we will stop trying to kill them.”

    And so the world burns.

  18. enkidu Says:

    And here is one middle of the road citizen who is standing up to your terrorism.
    How many dead Iraqis for dumbya’s war of lies and oil?

    100,000? 200,000?

    newsflash: Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 (other than being mudhut people)

    Becky can blubber and bellow all he wants, but the distortions, lies and the hate he is whipping up are a clear and present danger to our country. How many more right wing terrorists are going to go postal before some accountability for his hate screech is demanded? How many more cops have to die, innocents obliterated, before reasonable people say enough of this bullshit. Will you rightwing nutjobs blow up another Federal building if you can’t deny healthcare to 30 million people? Or mb blow up the WTC again?

    Becky sounds just like the fiery clerics of the various mud hut countries he rails against.

    pot meet kettle

    Christopher Hitchens has a decent article on the Becky/teabagger insanity

  19. shcb Says:

    I think it was Krauthammer that said “to understand American politics you have to realize that liberals think conservatives are evil and conservatives think liberals are idiots.”

  20. enkidu Says:

    Anyone who bothers to read your blather knows you are an evil idiot

    and really… Kauthammer? wasn’t this the guy that started shouting at the rabbi in temple because the rabbi called for peace between Israel and its neighbors?
    o yeah, that guy

    What, was rush busy trimming his anal warts?
    Becky having a pedicure?
    Malkin catatonic with anger?
    Coulter tied up at fox?

    I can guarantee you haven’t read my link to Hitch’s article
    of course, why bother to read a conservative’s criticism of the extremists who have taken over your party

  21. shcb Says:

    I read it.

  22. enkidu Says:

    oh good! let us know if you need help with any of those big words

  23. shcb Says:

    I have google cued up, but thanks for the concern :)

  24. knarlyknight Says:

    shcb, are you playing pool with google?

  25. shcb Says:

    I have a hard enough time dealing with facebook don’t think I could play GooglePool.

  26. NorthernLite Says:

    trouble using facebook – one of the most straight forward apps ever created – but an expert on climate science…

    okey dokey!


  27. knarlyknight Says:

    shcb, I just wonder cuz you said you had google “cued” up, maybe you meant “queued”?

    NL – good point.

  28. shcb Says:

    You guys got me on both counts, my spelling is legendary of course. Facebook was on my mind, I got hacked and had to ask my daughter’s help changing the password. One day they are helping you change a password, the next they are changing your diaper, it is hard to believe it is all downhill from here!

    (he gives me a hard time with spelling and writes “cuz”)

  29. knarlyknight Says:

    “cuz” is a choice in my battle toward brevity. “cued” is stupid.

  30. NorthernLite Says:

    “One day they are helping you change a password, the next they are changing your diaper, it is hard to believe it is all downhill from here!”

    that was hilarious shcb… at least no one can accuse you of not having a sense of humour.

  31. shcb Says:

    I can’t dance so I had to find something to amuse the ladies at parties, good looks wasn’t an option. To paraphrase Red Green, “if the ladies don’t find you handsome let em find you humorous.”

    I agree Knarls, I was just yanking you, misspelling I can blame on the nuns, misuse is harder.

  32. knarlyknight Says:

    Sorry shcb. I used up all my humor today. You’ll enjoy how that happened:

    Yesterday my boss championed an issue at a site manager’s meeting that was raised by my Jewish co-worker. The issue was simply that an organization like ours should be more sensitive in using the word “Christmas” and not be flouting it at every opportunity, as in Christmas dance, decorations, Christmas this Christmas that… because not everyone here celebrates Christmas. My boss chastised opposition at the meeting by pointing out that if they replaced the word “Christmas” in their emails and comments with the phrase “holiday to celebrate Jesus Christ” that might help them see their own insensitivity. With persistence, my boss prevailed over some staunch opposition. The managers agreed that “Christmas” would share the same esteemed place at this work site as does Yom Kipper and Ramadan. That was yesterday.
    First thing this morning, my boss gave my coworker a stack of cards and asked him to address them to our contacts and sign them on his behalf. I asked if he was seriously asking the only Jewish guy here to do all the Christmas cards. His reply, “They’re not Christmas cards, it’s just a picture of Santa saying ‘Happy Holidays’, (then the hamster wheel started to turn behind his eyes) but I see your point so I’ll just get him to put the addresses and a short message on them and I’ll sign them.” It’s true, I swear, you can’t make this stuff up.

  33. shcb Says:

    It’s all so silly, my friends in China still send me Merry Christmas wishes, I send them Chinese New Year’s wishes (in Chinese), the Dutch celebrate Christmas a couple weeks early, I wish them whatever it is I wish them (better look it up in my notes). Why do people have to get offended, if you only celebrate Festivus (Seinfeld), wish your Christian coworkers merry Christmas and move on.

    We have a tradition where I work of going bowling this time of the year, we shut down early this Friday, go bowl a couple lines and go home early, company pays. The plant manager’s wife works for the city, she has the same problem you have, so she (and we as a sort of a joke) aren’t having Charismas parties this year, we are having a “mandatory employee appreciation meeting” at the bowling alley.

    This really doesn’t have much to do with anything, I just thought it was interesting. While I was leaving the dentist today a lady was getting her elderly mother from the car to a wheelchair. I have an elderly father and know how difficult that can be so I walked over and asked if I could help, the lady said it was the first time in all the years she has been taking her mother around that someone asked if they could help. That seems sad to me.

  34. shcb Says:

    That said, your boss sounds like he needs to be a little more tactful. (Being generous, Chrismas season and all).

  35. NorthernLite Says:

    Red Green, nice. Good to know that at least one export from this socialist country of ours gives you pleasure.

  36. knarlyknight Says:

    NL, agreed but it would have been nicer if he hadn’t mangled the quote.

    Like everything else, shcb gets it sorta mostly right with the error mangling the true message into one serving shcb’s rhetorical purpose.

    “If the women don’t find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.”

  37. knarlyknight Says:

    shcb – note it is “handy” & that’s funny because of the double entendre.

  38. shcb Says:

    I thought I had probaly got it wrong, I haven’t watched him in a while my wife hates him only slightly less than NASCAR and she holds the remote at 10:30 at night. My favorite was the Zamboni (sp) with the bar stool seat, I think it was made from a Nova. Probably mangled that too.

  39. NorthernLite Says:

    shcb, did you see the leaked email from the FOX News exec ordering his staff to cast doubt on climate science?

    I only ask because I know how you rely on emails to make decisions on this matter…

  40. enkidu Says:

    No doubt he’ll be able to twist that into some unrecognizable right wing bullshit.

    “well, see (you stupid libs!) that was the right thing to do, cuz the science is not conclusive due to tides, angels, wishful thinking and coal company propaganda.”

    This is the second time in as many weeks that fox has had a leak about execs directing the ‘news’ people to take a very partisan slant on the facts of the day (previous leak was regarding healthcare reform btw, surprise!) mb wikileaks has a point?

    I find militant religious bellicosity to be the major cause of strife in our world (with a close second being partisan political extremism). We send out a SEASONS GREETINGS before xmas and some NEW YEARS CHEER after.

    Of course, over in the Wingnutoverse, triumphal atheists, mud hut ‘people’ along with kooks, kykes and kreeps are waging a savage War On Christmas.

  41. knarlyknight Says:

    Get your Amarula now, Kwanza is nearly upon us.

  42. shcb Says:

    I hadn’t heard about it until you mentioned it, doesn’t look like a big deal to me. It is either good journalism in the Dan Rather sense if he meant it the way it is written, or he has taken sides if he meant it the way you want to read it. If it is the later, welcome to the party, us on the right have been battling this for decades, it is what we call media bias. Selective wording, selective reporting, how long was it before the New York Times ran a story on Climategate? Like a month?

    Rosen interviewed Rather once, he asked Rather why he, Rather, called it a tax cut when it really was a tax rate cut. Rather replied that sometimes he uses tax cut and sometimes he uses tax rate cut, he thought it was more fair since the Republicans preferred the use of the word rate and the Dems didn’t. Rosen asked why didn’t he use the one that was more accurate? He just sort of shrugged and smiled. That was probably over 15 years ago, this is nothing new, your side has just never been exposed to it.

  43. knarlyknight Says:

    You’re right agaion as usual. He’s back to his old insane crybaby blathering about how American media is so unfair to neo con reicht wing lunatics and is so subservient to lefties like Michael Moore.

    Q. How many times has the multiple award winning documentary Fahrenheit 9/11 been shown on network TV in America? A. Zero, it is not allowed. Censored. VERBOTTEN!

    How many times have Fox personalities or Reicht wing idiot mouthwackers called for and / or implied a lefty should by killed, lynched, droned, or otherwise erased from earth for opposition to Rethuglican plans? Multiple. How many times have lefties done that? Zero.

  44. shcb Says:

    Oh please, you guys made a movie about the assignation of a sitting president. You’re doing the ole moral equivalence thing again; look conservatives are more violent than liberals. You’ve made your point, that is why people in tough guy jobs are more likely to be conservative and people in wimp jobs are more likely to be liberal, thank god we’re here to protect you guys (he’s not going to like that).

    But back to NL’s question, there isn’t anything in the memo that is untrue or outrageous. I guess the question is how much influence should someone in his position have over his subordinates. For example Knarly’s story of the Jewish guy made to send out Christmas cards is clearly over the line, asking him to be more understanding of his Christian coworkers wouldn’t be (in my opinion).

    Should reporters be able to say what they feel without interference? We can get rid of editors if that is the case. The next question is how much influence should politicians have on the press, we would like to think zero but we know that is only true in Hollywood. Remember the talking point faxes the Clinton administration sent out? All in all there isn’t much here in either of these memos, just some leaker trying to make a name for himself.

  45. shcb Says:

    Oh, trust me Knarly, if they thought it would get viewers, 911 would be on network TV every night. There just aren’t that many of you out there and you have all seen it. Hell, they all own it!

  46. NorthernLite Says:

    The FOX email reminds me of back in the days when tobacco companies would tell people smoking is perfectly safe – even makes you thin! – when all scientific evidence says otherwise.

    What’s a “tough guy job”? My conservative friends tend to be in financial services, machine shops or on farms.

    Conservatives tend to be dumb, and Liberals tend to be intelligent. Thank gawd we’re here to develop cures and technology for you guys.

  47. shcb Says:

    But not all scientific evidence says humans are the cause of global warming so that isn’t a good comparison, If you look at JBC’s 98% of climate scientists agree, you see the number is about 60%, 40% dissent is pretty major. That stat was just laughable. Face it the only time you normally get 98% of any group to agree on anything is N Korean elections and successful marriages, in the former the vote isn’t counted, the results are just announced, in the later the same occurs.

    Tough guy jobs, farmers and machinists surely fall into that category, although I don’t think I would consider machinists tough guys, they are just construction workers smart enough to come in out of the rain. Police and military is who I was talking about. Techno people like engineers tend to be conservative as well, people that teach all the above tend to be liberal. You realize it was just a jab don’t you? Nothing scientific.

  48. knarlyknight Says:

    shcb, you’re making gross misstatment again to serve your own ends, as in your Red Green quote.

    I have not seen “Death of a President”, and obviously you haven’t either as you know less about it than do I. What are you basing your comments on, the title alone? According to people who HAVE seen it, the movie is exactly the OPPOSITE of what you claim: it presents the assassination as a horrible thing and is very unflattering to “lefty’s.” E.g. Excerpt of one of many viewer reviews:

    .. the liberal protesters are portrayed as barely a step above grunting, poo-flinging apes – being an environmentalist makes you crazy and a potential assassin, or at least someone who would celebrate if he was shot. Meanwhile, the people interviewed about the day who knew Bush talk about him as though he was a genius and a saint.

    Of course, it’s also really not the point of the movie, but since it’s what people are making such a big deal about. Though I do wonder if people have bothered to SEE the movie before complaining. It’s not YAY THE PRESIDENT IS DEAD NOW THE WORLD IS GREAT. I’m not sure I’d go so far as to call it a dystopian future, but it’s not presenting Bush’s death as the way to improve things. It’s just a “what might have happened if…” sort of story.

    So now you are back to ZERO examples of lefty’s inciting violence in major media.

    Also, you entirely missed points while admitting that conservatives are violent. That’s not a point, it is a conclusion & fact. Here are some points that can be taken from that fact:
    1. Conservative people are drawn to conservative philosophy because its underlying premises are violent and cruel.
    2. Violence is utterly contrary to Christ’s teachings.
    3. Most conservatives claim to be Christians, therefore most are utter hypocrites, & hypocrites are one of the least trustworthy types of people, therefore Christian conservatives tend to be untrustworthy.
    4. It is self-evident that violent, untrustworthy people (conservatives) have no purpose within governments of civilized societies, and certainly not in leading them.
    5. History shows that violent, untrustworthy people in government are usually reicht wing and always usurp public policies for their own selfish purposes.

    As for Fahrenheit 9/11, my mistake as the censure from Network TV was only during the lead-up to the 2004 elections. Still, it’s never been shown on network TV and your explanation holds no water as it was a top grossing documentary and is still doing well selling on streaming downloads, etc. Less popular films appear on network TV all the time.

  49. knarlyknight Says:

    wiki , Assange & Naomi Klein, a nice summary:

  50. enkidu Says:

    Yet another study out saying faux’NEWS’ viewers are the least informed (I would put that as ‘most mis-informed’ and thrilled to have their prejudices and bigotries catered to). I doubt wwnj has input any factual information into his head in decades.

    Plus the irony of having the dumbest guy in the room lecture us dumb libs about anything is certainly not lost on me. I suppose I should translate that into redneck or Wingnutoverse speak:

    redneck translation (thx babelfish!)
    yew dang libs think yer so smart wif yer edumakashun and learnings and stuff!

    wingnutoverse inversion
    libtards hate conservatives because we are always right and they are always wrong sunspots framistat killemall mudhut DemoncRATS

    If you would care to enjoy an on-line analogue of the wwnj perceptual filter click below, stare at the center spot for 30 to 60 seconds then look at your hand, an article from the new york times or mb a picture of a puppy.

    You may scream “bush was right!” “barney fag!” “Obummer is a sociamalist!” or perhaps “mud hut countries” at inappropriate times. This is normal for wwnjs. The effect will fade if you expose yourself to factual information.

  51. NorthernLite Says:

    btw, if you guys missed the Daily Show last night you need to watch it and then go take some sort of action. Because the way you’re treating your 9/11 first repsonders is absolutely disgusting. I teared up watching it.

    Stewart dedicated his entire show – the last one of the decade – to it.

  52. enkidu Says:

    I’ll use the redneck translation filter from babelfish so wwnj can clue in:
    donchew git it stupid libs? all them 9/11 (9/11! 9/1!1!!!1!!!!!!!) ‘respondners’ is libtards wut jes wants mah tax munni – no free handouts fer Jew Dork City freeloaders!

    My wife and I watched that last night. I couldn’t care less if these guys are R, D, I, NA or sociamalism commutards, they deserve to be cared for in a civilized manner. Too bad Rs are against decency. Typical. Party before country, rightwing uber alles above and beyond any other human consideration.

    I wonder if wikileeks will show the smoking gun from 9/11?
    Would we have gone into Iraq if they had leaked Cheney’s energy task force meetings from early 2001? mb complete transparency isn’t such a bad thing?

  53. knarlyknight Says:

    Maybe we should have listened.

  54. shcb Says:

    Do I need to mention the Democrats have OWNED the government for the last 2 years? Knarly, if we didn’t have people in government that were willing to allow violence if not commit it themselves we wouldn’t live in polite society.

  55. knarlyknight Says:

    And who do the Democrats in your government resemble more closely, Kennedy or Reagan?

  56. knarlyknight Says:

    Dumb question, sorry.

  57. Smith Says:

    A polite society is a society in which everyone threatens to shoot everyone else.

    Welcome to America

  58. shcb Says:

    Neither, they were both conservative by today’s standards. Of modern presidents he most closely resembles Carter on foreign affairs, and LBJ on social spending. Maybe Bobby Kennedy, but not Jack.

  59. shcb Says:


  60. shcb Says:

    There is an old comeback to that, if you think guns are bad in the hands of honest citizens put a big sign on your front lawn that says “there are no guns in this house”.

  61. knarlyknight Says:

    Where I live that’s a given, no-one’s got (hand)guns except the cops and the occasional criminal. A sign would have no meaning.

    If you got a (hand)gun you are a cop or a criminal, it makes it hard to be a criminal if anyone who sees your (hand)gun knows you’re a shithead and phones the cops.

    Hunting rifles are rare here too, haven’t seen anyone go hunting in years.

    Crossbows seem to be in style, we got a few folks killing the deer in town at night with crossbows and the cops are trying to catch them. They did catch two guys walking around with crossbows but couldn’t link them to any dead deer, so they were sent home. Many people think the deer killers are doing us a favour since there are too many deer in town the last few years.

    In Vancouver there is a gang problem and now we’re seeing lots of shootings between rival gang members fighting over turf. The turf is up for grabs cuz the cops just shut down most of the controlling gang. I can’t see any end in sight to that. Predictably, the gangs are mostly into drugs & prostitution & maybe extortion so if you dabble in either or get caught up in the third then you run the risk of facing a gun. Other than that it’s the cops and gangs with the guns, civilians aren’t impacted hardly ever except the occasional stray bullet. Home invasions are not unheard of, but you are more than a THOUSAND times more likely to be killed, and about 10,000 times more likely to get injured in a traffic accident than a home invasion. So with those risks it would be ridiculous to call for gun ownership to protect your house here.

    I guess the risks are different where you live.

  62. shcb Says:

    I find that thought process interesting, what difference does it make if another, separate risk is higher? It seems you would handle those risks as separate issues. If I live close to a high risk area I may want to own a gun, I would own a gun, the only question is would it be legal. If I lived in the country where help is many minutes I would own a gun. Likewise if I drove a road that was very accident prone I would find a different route if possible just to lower the risks.

    When I was flying back from Holland I sat next to a young man that thought like you, why do you need a gun, they are virtually illegal in Holland, I asked if you can get one, he said sure, just go to Czechoslovakia and you can get whatever you want, odd thought process. Somehow making it illegal makes the problem go away, even though you know it is still there and can point right to it.

    But yes the risks are higher here, even though we only live a few miles out of town it would be a minimum of 5 tp 10 minutes before police arrived, that is a long time.

  63. knarlyknight Says:

    shcb, this puts the lie to most of your claims that you know about what happened at the Pentagon on 9/11. Interesting flight simulator segment starting at the 6 or 17 minute mark too.

  64. knarlyknight Says:

    NL, first responders have been getting screwed for years, the Bill in the senate is long overdue.

    For the past six years, Feal and his Foundation have been lobbying Washington to set aside money in a 9/11 First Responders Health and Compensation fund to care for the first heroes to respond. This is the closest he has ever come and now the bill is buried in the debris of partisan politics. Feal is understandably angry: “These senators should be charged with manslaughter if they don’t pass this bill.”

    & see:

  65. knarlyknight Says:

    I see your point on risk, you just misunderstand my thoughts cuz I assumed I didn’t have to explain everything. I left a lot out: e.g. I don’t shy away from cars to decrease my risk, so why would I mess with the lower risk gun problem (imbalance of power against a potential robber coming into my house) by bringing another gun into the house?

    Our 911 response is usually a couple minutes but on a busy night it could be 5 or 10 if there’s a big disturbance somewhere else. That ould still be too long if bad stuff was happening. I wouldn’t mind having a gun for the 1 in 100,000 chance that I might need it someday; but I don’t want that idiot down the block to have a gun, he might figure he needs it next time Greenpeace knocks on his door. It is FAR better neither of us have one than both of us. I can defend myself & my family in other ways: I could put a sign on my lawn that says: “THERE ARE NO GUNS IN THIS HOUSE (guns are for wimps!)”

  66. knarlyknight Says:

    MM tried to raise awareness of the First Responders plight in SICKO, but WIKILEAKS diplomatic cables now show how the US government thwarted his efforts with LIES, and how FOX & othe r mainstream media STILL regurgitate the LIES even when the truth is easy for a fifth grader to locate. Good points here:

  67. Smith Says:

    My point had less to do with gun control and more to do with the fact that you seem to believe a society based on fear and violence is somehow desirable, but good attempt to change the subject. Says a lot about the authoritarian mindset of the Right wing, when you believe that everyone should be controlled by the threat of violence. I guess bullies beating up weak kids and the shootings that sometimes follow are both elements of a polite society brought about by the willingness to use violence? Oh, how about unprovoked wars? Those fit in well with the attitude that might makes right. Just look at how polite Afghanistan is. Violence is great. Herfa Derfa Dooooooooooo

  68. shcb Says:

    Smith, I was really talking big picture too, Knarly went down the gun control route and I thought it was interesting, I wasn’t changing the subject. I think both you and Knarly’s comments ( and mine) show the difference in the thought process of liberals and conservatives. Societies based on fear and violence is just natural, I don’t think it makes any difference whether that violence comes from a government-sponsored individual like a police officer or if that violence comes from a private citizen. There will always be a certain percentage of bad people that produced the fear, so the fear is always going to be there. I think it comes down to the question of whether you would like to be self-reliant or not, you can see from Knarly’s comment above that he would rather give up his self-reliance in return for a lower possibility of someone else using their self-reliance in a momentary loss of control, fair enough.

    As far as unprovoked wars go, again I think you are correct that conservatives are much more likely to engage in preemptive wars that are liberals. I don’t think Afghanistan is a good example but there certainly have been examples of that happening or at least the side of the debate the two sides fit into. Again I think this is just a difference in philosophy sometimes one side is right sometimes the other is right you never know until after the decision is made and even then you’re looking at things in 2020 hindsight without really knowing what the other decision would have brought.

  69. knarlyknight Says:

    Put the bottle down shcb, you’re getting confused. The premise is that guns create a reason to fear, and the more people who have guns to use in a moment of anger the more that you have to fear. Having a gun might feel good at the time, like a snort of cocaine, but it also continually reminds you of he fears that prompted you to get the gun, no matter how remote and silly the risk actually is. It is also a false illusion of safety, because Murphy’s Law ensures you won’t have the gun at hand if you ever really do need it.

    Obviously, if lots of people have guns then there are lots of different things to fear, realistically, in terms of how the guns are going to get used.

    So how has widespread gun ownership, combined with 24/7 reporting of gun violence etc. calmed the American psyche and produced a new American society with low levels of fear and violence? It hasn’t, that was sarcasm.

    Do a bit of research on gun ownership vs. societal fear and you’ll find your comments are warped and do no stand up to facts. Reduce the number of guns and ensure you have honorable, well trained police force serving the people (rather than the government.) That is part of the recipe for a society with low violence with fewer fears. The other key ingredients are to ensure there are opportunities for work at fair wages and no-one lives in desperate poverty. Poverty and desparation breeds violence; if you live in one of those neighborhoods then of course you want a gun to defend yourself, and the cycle continues until you get what you see on your news, ad nauseum.

  70. knarlyknight Says:

    However, if you argue that you want gun ownership because someday you might have to protect yourself from Dick Cheney, John Woo and similar creeps, then you have my support.

  71. shcb Says:

    That might be true to some but not all, I get a sense of security knowing I’m armed, I follow Gibbs’ rule # 9, I always carry a knife, I have less fear knowing I have some form of protection. The less you are able to hold your own physically the more a weapon is needed for protection, the less fear that woman walking to her car late at night has. I disagree with the notion that somehow we can stop evil in society by somehow giving people all they need to live comfortable lives, there are enough folks out there that just plain want what you got no matter how much you give them. If you don’t want a gun that should be a personal choice, America was built on that principal.

  72. knarlyknight Says:

    shcb, Hurf Durf to you too.

    So you “disagree with the notion that somehow we can stop evil in society by somehow giving people all they need to live comfortable lives?” That means that you disagree with yourself, because you are the only one that said that.

    If you were attempting to paraphrase what I said, you failed miserably and have proven yourself to have the comprehension of a Thai fried squid. I was speaking of things that can be done to move towards a lower violence & lower fear society, but obviously the law of diminishing returns applies. With America’s desperate poor and vast inequities of wealth at historic levels you have a long long way to go before you start to worry about diminishing returns.

  73. shcb Says:

    I understant your sentiment, it is just wrong, you are wishing for something that can’t be, the founders understood there would be people like you from eternity to eternity, that is why they gave us the 2nd ammendment.

  74. knarlyknight Says:

    Sometimes your stupidity is so profound it is amazing. I am “wishing” FOR THE STATUS QUO! I live in Canada, we don’t have the same right to handguns, and I assert that as a result we are safer and far less paranoid (e.g. of our neighbors and as a society) than are you Americans.

    Enjoy your second amendment, I hope you are better with a gun than whoever you get into a shootout with. My bet is on the home invader, because he’ll probably be smarter than you.

  75. shcb Says:

    I understand Knarly I’m not stupid, you guys are using that as a crutch way too much anymore. When we have these discussions, there is bouncing around of what we think personally and what the group we belong to thinks. Sometimes we don’t say only I think that, sometimes we don’t say only the group or only a small percentage of the group says that, perhaps we should but then these posts would be even longer. Likewise I know you don’t have the same rights as we do but when I say things like the founders knew there would be people like you I am referring to people in the US with those same notions, not you, not any Canadian. I know it is hard to keep up with me but I would never consider it is because you are stupid. BTW I’m a pretty damn good shot, farm kid you know.

    Chuck Yeager said that in WWII some ridiculous number like 90% of the planes shot down by Americans were done so by 15% of the pilots. When they analyzed the data the only correlation they came up with was they had all grown up in rural areas and had been hunting since they were young, another benefit of the right to bear arms.

  76. NorthernLite Says:

    Yes, shcb, I’m aware that the Dems were on “control” (sort of) for the last several years. But apparently in the U.S. you need to have 60% of the votes to “control” a lot of things, which they didn’t have. In most democracies 51% is the majority but I guess you’re different down there, but that’s a whole other topic for debate.

    The 9/11 worker’s bill has been held up by Republicans and you should be ashamed to call yourself one until this is made right.

  77. NorthernLite Says:

    A hand-gun (AK-47) in one hand, and a bible (Quran) in the other…

  78. NorthernLite Says:

    And gerrymandering…

    From what I’ve been reading, the Republicans and Tom Delay are the masters at that. But don’t take my word for it…

  79. shcb Says:

    Gerrymandering, gerrymandering is of course a very old political tactic and has been used by both sides. I suppose I’m a little more sensitive to it here in Colorado since the last time it was done, after the 2000 census the Democrats here stonewalled for almost 2 years until they regained power, then found a Democrat judge to give them what they wanted when they were out of power. Republicans should have been in charge of redistricting, and that included a newly formed congressional district, the seventh district, that I just happen to live in. That was just a little too underhanded for me.

    We don’t live in a democracy we live in a republic with democratic principles. The problem with the filibuster was that it wasn’t designed to continue the debating process ad nausea. This procedure that allows a senator to walk in the morning sign a piece of paper and then leave to conduct business as usual is a relatively new rule in the Senate. In its original form it could delay a vote for several days and maybe even a few weeks while opposition could try and work out a compromise or encourage a public uproar that would change the party in power’s outlook on a bill. The Senate is supposed to be a more deliberative body and its existence is really to mute the exuberance of the House of Representatives not to stop the process completely. I’m not sure who changed that rule may be your research on the subject will tell you, whoever it was no one seems to have the balls to change the rule once they are in power.

  80. NorthernLite Says:

    I guess at $7 billion the 9/11 is too expensive? But the trillion dollar tax cut for millionaires and billionaires is no problem. Oooookay.

    I continue to be completely baffled by just how big of wussie’s the left are in your country. You guys (on the right) must just be sitting back and laughing your asses off.

  81. shcb Says:

    By the way, I hope DeLay and his boys are good at gerrymandering, as long as they stick to the rules.

    You have me at a disadvantage on this 911 first responders issue, I really don’t know anything about it, I’ve been really busy and haven’t paid much attention to anything lately. Do you have a bill number handy? If not that’s okay I’ll try and look it up, I’m not dodging your questions, I just really haven’t heard much about it.

  82. NorthernLite Says:

    I’m not surprised you haven’t heard about it. Unless you’re up late to watch the Daily Show you probably haven’t heard about it as Stewart and Comedy Central are the only ones speaking up for these workers.

    But somebody else has picked up the mantle, a good guy named Shep Smith on FOX. Although he avoids telling viewers its the Rs blocking the bill, at least he’s finally speaking out.

    Sorry, don’t know the bill number but Smith summarizes it pretty well.

  83. shcb Says:

    Okay, I spent a few minutes and skim this bill, it is HR847. Everything looks fine until you get to page 117 of 122, at that point there is a section entitled “title III limitations on treaty benefits for certain deductible payments; time for payment of corporate estimated taxes.” Another brief scan of that section does not appear to have anything to do with this first responders bill. I’m guessing that is the problem with the filibuster. Has Jon Stewart mentioned anything about this section muddying up this bill? Has he been yelling at Democrats to remove this ancillary section, or has he just been pounding on the desk berating Republicans for being the mean son of a bitches that they are.

    If you have the law pound the law, if you have the truth pound the law, if you have neither the truth nor the law pound the desk.

  84. knarlyknight Says:

    You’re kidding right? Which senator, specifically, has spoken out objecting to that provision, and what were the objections?

    It sounds to me like a minor provision dealing with the tax accounting for deductables for health treatement when paid by other sources, foreign or domestic.

    Your research methods are attrocious: Read something quickly, find a confusing part you don’t understand, assume it means something the confrims your biases or preconcieved prejudice, report what you made up as if it is probably true, then invoke theatrics and mockery, e.g. diatribe about “desk pounding”.

    Sounds a lot like your approach to AGW reports.

  85. NorthernLite Says:

    “Republicans complained that the $7.4 billion price tag was too high, while Democrats said the government had an obligation to help the first responders to the deadliest terrorism attack in U.S. history.”

    “… needed 60 votes to pass due to a Republican filibuster, but fell short at 57-42 in favor.

    The House previously passed the bill on a mostly partisan 268-160 vote.

    Republicans have never mentioned any of the shit you just posted above. It’s the cost.

    Now I’m hearing that in order to win R support some sort of tax loophole for corporations had to be inserted.


  86. shcb Says:

    maybe so Knarly is right, I just scanned 122 pages in ten minutes and didn’t read it close enough to even know what the provision is, I was just tossing it out there as a possability. Other than that is looks ok to me, if that was a provision Republicans wanted in there then I stand corrected.

  87. shcb Says:

    Just found out one of the neighbor kids was killed in a car wreck this morning sweet girl. not in the mood to argue for a few days.

  88. knarlyknight Says:

    Sorry to hear that (about the girl that is.)

    It is horrible, my thoughts with you.

    If only she had a gun to take out the other driver before he got too close.

  89. shcb Says:

    :) head on with a semi, texting we think, 7:00 in the morning coming home from school about 50 miles away to bake cookies with her mom.

  90. knarlyknight Says:


  91. Smith Says:

    “Knarly went down the gun control route and I thought it was interesting, I wasn’t changing the subject. ”


    # shcb Says:
    December 18th, 2010 at 5:40 am
    There is an old comeback to that, if you think guns are bad in the hands of honest citizens put a big sign on your front lawn that says “there are no guns in this house”.

    knarlyknight Says:
    December 18th, 2010 at 6:17 pm
    Where I live that’s a given, no-one’s got (hand)guns except the cops and the occasional criminal. A sign would have no meaning.

    You can tell time, right?

    Sucks to hear about your neighbor, but I am not going to let you get away with such an obvious lie.

  92. shcb Says:

    Sorry, I guess I was talking about you changing the subject, not Knarly, sorry about that Knarly.

  93. NorthernLite Says:

    The family will need lots of love, especially during this time. Very tragic.

  94. shcb Says:

    We haven’t talked to them yet, we’re going to go over tonight but I guess they are obviously devistated but are closing everyone out, not good. I know this is trivial but sort of not, Christmas will be ruined for this family forever, and not just the three remaining but it will affect the son’s family as well. When we talk about the 3000 that were killed in 911 it was tens of thousnads that had their lives turned upside down that day. Or pick any tragedy small or large. I know you all know that.

    I normally don’t get this upset about these things, Madison used to come over to the house when she was little but I haven’t seen or talked to her in 4 or 5 years, only casually know her parents, strange how some things tear you up.

  95. NorthernLite Says:

    Bring them some food. Don’t know if its the same down there but it seems to be the thing to do up here for a greiving family. They don’t have the energy, or even appetite, but if there’s prepared food sitting around they’ll eat it.

  96. knarlyknight Says:

    Yes, good idea NL. And give them space to grieve if they want it. Bring food not just soon but also next week and the week after. (If everyone brings food at the same time and then goes away, the resulting feast laying to waste becomes little more than a sad reminder.)

  97. shcb Says:

    We are doing that tonight, but that is a good point Knarly, to bring them something in a week or so.

  98. knarlyknight Says:

    I’m betting this will be entertaining to you as a spectacle of political cannabilism, the left eating their “socialist” leader. Others may have a different interpretation of course…

    Michael Moore will appear live from the 92nd Street Y in New York City tonight on a Rachel Maddow Show special event, “Leadership in America.”
    Tune in to MSNBC at 9:00 PM ET/6:00 PM PT (replay at 12:00 Midnight ET/9:00 PM PT).

  99. shcb Says:

    let me know how it turns out, I’m too tired to watch, 3 weeks of 7 days a week, 10-12 hour days and 3 more to go. maybe there will be a youtube of it. It does sound interesting. MM has this baffoon act but he’s no dummy, the question is will RM try and out liberal MM?

  100. NorthernLite Says:

    Merry Christmas dudes! I’m starting vacation… no computer/blackberry/bullshit for a little while lol.

    Happy Holidays!

    P.S. – About that “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” thingy…


  101. NorthernLite Says:

    Oh, and START.

    Happy Chaunaka

  102. shcb Says:

    Merry Christmas

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