Google Isn’t Not Being Evil by Pulling Lessig’s Webside Chat from YouTube

Apparently you used to be able to watch Lawrence Lessig give a very cool talk on copyright and free culture on YouTube, but now you can’t. Shame, that.

Fortunately, you can still watch it on

41 Responses to “Google Isn’t Not Being Evil by Pulling Lessig’s Webside Chat from YouTube”

  1. beachton Says:

    That was a good talk. I’m still a little fuzzy on the business plan though. I agree that it’s not the government’s job to make sure entertainment companies and newspapers make money, and I’m all for the creative content. But what about those of us who lost our “real” jobs who create this content full time? It’s not just 20% of our time doing good works. The answer can’t be we all should write a book. Why would people buy books when they can just consume content on the internet all day? The book model seems doomed, if not contrary to the whole argument about relaxing copyright protection. Where is it going? Everybody has to get a day job in a shop or an office and only produce creative content in their time off? There cease to be any professional artists? Really? That’s what we want?

  2. shcb Says:

    And patents, don’t forget patents, Canada already circumvents our drug patent rights, I read an article the other day saying the Chinese routinely place one large order for parts then reverse engineer and produce the part themselves, the article was lauding them for saving so much money on development costs! This stupidity drives me nuts. Do they think those of us that invent and create for a living will continue if there is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow? Do they think our benefactors will continue to finance our expeditions even if we decide to do it because it’s what we do? How many inventions are not going to be created. You see that is the question. At the end of the day the socialists will say there were 3 new drugs or 10 new products produced this year with everyone owning everything and no one getting rich on any of it, but the question is what multiplier would have to be used to describe the number that would have been created if someone did get rich?

  3. knarlyknight Says:

    shcb, the multiplier is 0.23, the proportion of new income that newly rich people reinvest in future R&D. The rest is spent on real estate and lifestyle. snark

    Boing Boing has been doing a great job of clarifying (and fighting) the battles about intellectual property rights, supporting creativity and creating the legal environment where creativity&R&D flourish. Beachton, you might like the discussion there at if you brouse some of the articles, or if jbc is truly interested in bringing that discussion to then maybe he could set out some of the bigger issues here. For what its worth (less than nothing I assume) my vote is not to bring copyright discussion to as there is little relevance to it here. Perhaps jbc’s intention was to draw attention to something quite diffferent, that being censorship by Google of an opinion “it” doesn’t like.

  4. NorthernLite Says:

    shcb, you’ve made that statement before about us “stealing your patents”. Do you have proof of that?

    According to my research, our companies pay a royalty fee to American pharmaceutical companies to produce the drugs. We then have policies in place to keep costs low (restricted advertising and such). We do it with their permission, that we pay for.

    Full explanation can be read here:

  5. shcb Says:

    Nl, I would have to listen to several hours of Rosen to find where he talked about Canada subverting patents and that isn’t worth it to me. He’s talked about it several times. Sure the American companies are making the best of a bad situation, but if the threat of losing all their profits weren’t there they wouldn’t make those concessions and drug prices in Canada would be higher and those in America would be less. It is cost shifting like we do with Medicare and insurance, something that will get oh so much worse if we socialize medicine in the US.

    Knarly, I don’t know what you’re talking about.

  6. NorthernLite Says:

    Oh, so you are basing your criticism on what you heard on somebody’s opinion show?

  7. shcb Says:

    same a basing criticsm on what you read in somone’s opinion article or blog

  8. NorthernLite Says:

    Surely you’re not comparing research conducted by the American Psychiatric Association on the actual facts of the matter to a talk radio figure head?

  9. shcb Says:

    There is no comparison, two different subjects, I’m sure everything in your article is true, also I’m sure the quotes by your prime minister at the time or the minister of whatever department Rosen quoted was true as well. Your article mostly pertains to Canadian companies and Canadian law, what I am talking about is state department type stuff, treaties and such, and how they trickle down to private companies.

  10. knarlyknight Says:


  11. shcb Says:

    It’s just the way business is done, when government takes something over they are inherently inefficient, so it costs more or they deliver less than the private sector because there isn’t as much of a profit motivation, if the government limits profit. So that profit is shifted somewhere else if that is possible, or the company stops providing that product and moves onto something else.

    One of the reasons insurance is so high in this country is because the government limits the amount it will pay hospitals and doctors for government funded treatment, Medicare and Medicaid. So if a procedure to a patient costs $20,000 with them getting the best care in the world, as we are accustomed to here in America but the government only decides it will pay $15,000 because they don’t think patients need private rooms and adequate nursing staff, then that $5,000 is charged to the person that has private insurance. Now this works if that overage can be distributed to enough people, but if government controls the industry as Canada does there is nowhere for this overage to go. So we either all pay more or get less. In the Canadian system, at least the pharmaceutical aspect they can and do cost shift some of this overage to their neighbor to the south, but if that neighbor’s government takes over its medical industry there will be no one to shift costs to, at that point your costs will go up or your care will go down, as will ours. But as in typical liberalism, we will all suffer equally, lovely.

  12. Smith Says:


    “So if a procedure to a patient costs $20,000 with them getting the best care in the world, as we are accustomed to here in America but the government only decides it will pay $15,000 because they don’t think patients need private rooms and adequate nursing staff,”

    You are aware that private insurance companies are already doing this, right? Surely you have noticed that the rate the hospitals bills and the rate the insurance company agrees to pay are not the same. And no, I am not talking about deductibles or the percent of a bill the patient is expected to pay. There is the actual hospital rate and the “negotiated” rate. Also, if you think private insurance companies do not dictate the type of room or level of care a patient is eligible for, you must have your head pretty far up your ass.

    “Oh, so you are basing your criticism on what you heard on somebody’s opinion show?”

    You act like this is not the case with every shcb post.

  13. knarlyknight Says:

    Still trying to fit every problem into a corporatocratic cookie cutter world view, failure after failure ad nauseum? Your views on economics are so cliche’d, all you are suggesting is more of the same slow decline into mediocrity that your country has been suffering for over a decade. America may not need radical change, but boy do you ever need a lot of change. That’s obvious. I got no answers, but at least I can see that whereas it appears that you think the answer is to keep banging your head against the wall only do it harder.

    Just for fun, and as a contrast to your last post, here’s what original thinking is like:

  14. shcb Says:

    The amount Medicare pays is something like 40% less than the normal rate in some cases, this is why there are less and less doctors that accept Medicare, same with hospitals his of course produces longer waits unless the patient pays for supplemental insurance, which is also heavily subsidized. If a hospital says it wants $20,000, but the insurance companies negotiate a lower price for less amenities there is still a market mechanism in place for the insurance to pay the least and get the most or the customer will go somewhere else, yes the hospital and doctor want the get more but there is still a market clearing price, and a market clearing level of service, there is no incentive for either with the exception of re election and a return to a free market system in a government controlled model.


    Failure after Failure. Hmm, in just a few hundred years we have turned nothing into the greatest nation on earth bar none. Yes we fail, that is one of our strengths, we allow people to achieve greatness, we also allow them to fail, but in the final tally we have succeeded considerably more than we have failed.

  15. knarlyknight Says:

    Failures of the last decade or two… no-one was talking about the indian wars here until you brought up a two hundred year time frame, it took your country a long time to get beyond slavery and the racism in the South is still disgusting; but back on track: Corporatism has stopped working for the people, is degrading nature and has morphed into a power that demands endless wars… it’s not working and near everyone who voted for Obama knows that some serious changes were needed. There’s been some change, but sadly the dems are trying to appease rethuglicans and aiming for the centre of a wrong wing…

  16. shcb Says:

    “Corporatism has stopped working for the people, is degrading nature and has morphed into a power that demands endless wars”

    This may be an interesting discussion, let’s leave wars out of it for now since war has been a constant for thousands of years and you are only referring to a few decades. What do you mean when you say “Corporatism has stopped working for the people”?

  17. shcb Says:

    BTW, I think I may even agree with you on a few points here, I think our solutions will be different, but I may agree with you on the problem.

  18. NorthernLite Says:

    I still take exception to the claim you like to make, and that is, “we (America) receive the best care in the world.”

    Your care may be top notch, but can you really say that it’s the best when the country to the north of you provides care to its entire people, for (much) less money, they’re healthier and they live longer? Like it or not, those are all indisputable facts. I know it’s hard to swallow because we’re such a socialist country.

    I think the problem all boils down to taxes. Your taxes need to be raised if you’re ever going to stop borrowing money from China.

    Btw, how does that make you feel, having to borrow money from a “communist” country? I find it quite humorous that often times the right-wing in your country cries about socialism and communism and how it doesn’t work and will destroy America and then turns around and borrows another trillion dollars from China.

  19. shcb Says:


    good questions, I’ll answer tonight, made it to the race yesterday, it was fun and I’m glad I can cross it off my bucket list but I wouldn’t travel to another city just to se a race, the view is better on TV.

  20. NorthernLite Says:

    Hey, I actually meant to ask you about the race yesterday. I watched some of it too. That track looked in pretty rough shape man, is it supposed to be like that? I bet the view is better on TV, for that one especially it was almost all corners. I just couldn’t get over the deep ruts in the track, they looked really big even on TV. I didn’t catch the end though, spring has sprung pretty early around here and it was just too nice outside to stay indoors. It’s been a loooong winter.

    As for the questions, no problem. We haven’t had a good pissing match in a while so I thought I’d get the ball rolling. :-)

  21. knarlyknight Says:

    Sounds like you’ll be busy with NL for a while. To answer your question “what do you mean by corporatism has stopped working for the people?” I’d suggest you watch these two highly acclaimed films:
    & MM’s Capitalism: a Love Story. I haven’t seen either, as I’m sure all they’d do is validate my opinions and that seems like a bit of a waste of time. But The Corporation might just open up a whole new way of seeing things; and I’m sure MM’s film would be good excercise for your heart…

  22. knarlyknight Says:

    … whole new way of seeing things for you; After you watch them let me know and we’ll discuss.

  23. shcb Says:

    But I was asking what you though, you guys are always saying I am just repeating what (fill in the blank) says…. I’m pretty sure I know what those are going say, and I don’t care what MM says. tell you what, I’ll give a couple items from the Dilbert blog, in the meantime you answer my question. I think we will agree with a few of the causes, the solution we may not, I’m not tossing you a zinger here.

  24. knarlyknight Says:

    sorry shcb, my heart & mind is elsewhere and I got no time to do the subject justice here. So why don’t you tell me what you think we’ll agree about and maybe I’ll just nod.

  25. shcb Says:

    NL, the problem is you are looking over here and the wreck is over there. The first wreck was so in front of me I couldn’t see it, the guy hit the wall right in front of me, I was seven rows back, smelt the rubber, got hit with small rocks and didn’t see a thing until I watched it on TV. Then the flip was at the other end of the track. I did get a good view of the big wreck at the end of the race, we were in the perfect place. The guy that got out front ran away and the others just followed in single file, I had a bad hangover but still I thought “this is like watching at home but at home I could take a nap”. Then there is this one asshole that has to stand up EVERY SINGLE LAP, point at the his driver and sweep his arm to the right, as if the guy in the car can see him and needs him (the asshole) to tell him (the driver) which way to go.

    BTW, there cannot be enough designated drivers in all of Georgia to have gotten everyone out of that parking lot legally, they let you take in coolers of beer, I got there at 10 am and was the only one in any line without a beer, most of them were probably on their second… six pack.

    Now to your questions, our system provides care to everyone we just pay for it in a different way than you do. We don’t live as clean lives as some countries so we’re going to need more health care (that is sort of tongue in cheek, but not totally), more money, we are also into the baby boomers reaching old age. And we subsidize much of the rest of the world with medical development.

    As far as China goes, it bothers me that we are borrowing so much period, but I realize we are borrowing it from the capitalistic side of China not the communistic, but it bothers me that the communistic side runs the capitalistic, but I understand that the Communists are going to lose, but they will never be capitalists like the US used to be, the people embrace socialism so they will probably end up in a Euro socialistic configuration so they will end up in worse shape than us, except that we are heading in that direction too. Sigh.

  26. shcb Says:

    Knarly, I don’t think I will watch The Corporation based on the wiki article, seems pretty clear it is just a hit piece. They are comparing corporations to sociopaths? That is just ridiculous, as in normal society we as individuals are not all sociopaths, some are, a very small percentage, same with corporations, most are well run, honest, and ethical, and sure there are a few that aren’t. If you knew me and had business dealings with me you would say I’m a really decent guy and quite honest and ethical. But on a few occasions I have done things I’m not proud of, things that were absolutely dishonest and unethical. If someone did a documentary on me and only focused on those 3 or 4 items I would look like one mean and nasty SOB who can’t be trusted any farther than you can toss me with one hand. But that isn’t the whole picture. But people like MM aren’t really interested in the whole picture in their “documentaries”.

    If you are too busy to answer my question now that’s ok, I’m living out of a suitcase for another week so I don’t have a lot of time myself. I’m sure it will come up again.

  27. knarlyknight Says:

    I doubt the movie has the fault as you’ve suggested it does, that’d be too obvious. Even if it does, there is another way to look at it: there are lots of sociopaths who function appropriately and unnoticed in society because they’ve recognized that doing so is in their best interest and the real risks inherent in anti-social behaviour are clear to them. They may never wander from the straight and true, but if society’s glue is unstuck – disaster, war, or lesser deterioration of law and order (or regulations) then these socio-paths will be the first to exploit it. If you’d watch the movie I bet that’s what it shows: some corporations exlpoit regulatory weaknesses with utter lack of conscience about its impact on people, and the corporate model is such that most any corporation is more cabable of doing exactly the same thing than, for example, individuals who were acting on their own behalf and therefore personally liable for their actions.

  28. knarlyknight Says:


    And gives a far better explanatino of the film than wiki did:

  29. enkidu Says:

    good luck getting a coherent answer on copyrights out of ol wwnj

    when his facts are based on some old Macho Mike hate radio show that he can’t be bothered to link to (much less something factual rather than opinion based), well you just get the same old wwnj talking points remixed as ‘fact’

    at any rate I thought you fellas up north would appreciate this:

  30. shcb Says:

    so how is that description different from the Wiki?

  31. knarlyknight Says:

    Sorry shcb, I can’t hear you over my health care benefits…

  32. NorthernLite Says:

    I saw that enk. That would be the same healthcare that Sarah Palin says she used growing up in Alaska…

  33. enkidu Says:

    you beat me to it NL
    that image was a set up to point out just how hypocritical certain morans might be

    The Canadian gov should try to find out how much healthcare her family scammed and send them a bill. And very publicly shame them (good luck w that)

    did you hear that SP is now saying that she is in good company writing notes on her hand?
    she says God did it too

  34. NorthernLite Says:

    Yeah I saw that on TV yesterday. I’m sure He didn’t have to write his core beliefs on His hand so He could remember them though lol.

    I wonder what He would think of shooting moose from a helicopter, also?

  35. enkidu Says:


  36. NorthernLite Says:

    LOL that’s hilarious! You know how it is though, seems like for every beer you drink you pee out two!

  37. enkidu Says:

    yah sure, but those two are for export

  38. NorthernLite Says:


  39. NorthernLite Says:

    this must be shared…|1340477-6Wt7jKx&fv=b|1340433-GsqZaAx&rc=taf.bnf

  40. NorthernLite Says:

    make sure you enter your name when prompted to get the full effect of Glen Beck railing against you!

  41. NorthernLite Says:

    ps… the link looks like it didn’t paste right but it did…

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