Bush Gets Pissy on Torture
So, apparently Bush couldn’t avoid being asked a question or two about the steady flow of evidence that his administration is hip-deep in the use of torture as an interrogation method. Josh Micah Marshall has a good round-up: From the front page of Friday’s Post… And George Paine of Warblogging does a good job of focusing on the key issue in Bush’s non-denial denial issued yesterday: President Bush and torture.
I realize I’m sounding like a bit of a broken record lately. But there’s a big, festering, malodorous carcase in the middle of the Oval Office rug, and I think we, as a people, need to take notice and do something about it.
June 11th, 2004 at 11:03 am
Hasn’t anybody got the guts to accuse the worst perpetrator in this whole Abu Ghraib prison debacle – CBS and 60 Minutes II?
What do you call it when, in time of war, someone takes military intelligence and turns it over to the enemy, who in turn uses it to kill Americans?
Isn’t that the definition of treason? Did Benedict Arnold do worse? Did Julias and Ethel Rosenberg pay with their lives for something like this?
It has already been well established, and CBS certainly knew, that the military announced to the press back in January that allegations had been made concerning treatment of prisoners and were being investigated.
In March there was another announcement that the allegations were still being investigated and certain service personnel at Abu Ghraib were relieved of their duties and might be court marshaled.
In other words, while America was fighting a war, the military had already taken the allegations seriously, were investigating them and were taking steps to correct the situation. In other words, it was being handled, and handled well.
These things happen in war on all sides, and though they are not excusable, they are kindergarten exercises compared to car bombs, ambushes, rocket launchings and dangling burning bodies over bridges – and this is what the interrogators at Abu Ghraib were trying to find ways to stop.
Freedom of the press is precious to us, but you can abuse any liberty and stretch it out of shape until it becomes license, and concerned citizens will call for limitations.
In this case, if CBS had really cared about the country, about our military, about doing the right thing, they would have taken these pictures, (which they had illegally) and asked the military and the Pentagon what was being done about the abuses (Although they most likely knew it, they would have been told that the matter was in hand and being taken care of).
Indeed, a general implored them not to publish the pictures because of what he knew would happen as a result.
CBS could have cared less.
In their mad competition for rating points, dollars, and seeing a great way to blast the President and the war effort in Iraq which they have continually denigrated and opposed, they broadcast they abhorrent pictures – and not just to the United States, BUT TO THE WORLD!
Knowing full well that we were walking a tight rope, trying to fight a war, quell disturbances and build a republic for Iraq in the midst of all the terrorist resistance, CBS published these abhorrent pictures knowing they would destroy completely our image and standing in the Muslim world.
And what about Osama bin Laden? What about the terrorists? What about America’s image with all our allies around the world? And what about America’s own self image and confidence in their leaders?
And what did the beheaders of Nick Berg say, just before they callously sawed his head off while he screamed, “This is in retaliation for what you Americans did to our people at Abu Ghraib!” And how did they know about these interrogation abuses?
Though poor Mr. Berg blames George Bush and Donald Rumsefld, it is incontrovertible that his son would be home with him right now had it not been for the publication of those pictures. Mr. Berg is pointing his finger in the wrong direction.
And as a direct result of CBS callous and patently unpatriotic action, America is suffering great loss of prestige around the world, and will for decades.
America has lost credibility with Muslims and the Arab world internationally, perhaps forever; and every American life is in far greater danger from terrorist reprisal, no matter who and where we are!
Freedom of the press is a cherished commodity, guaranteed by our Constitution. But freedoms, if they are to be maintained and to have the original meaning, must be treated with grave responsibility and restraint.
For me, CBS has become “the enemy within”, and I hope never to watch the network again. I think most Americans ought to reflect on the results of their irresponsible and unpatriotic behavior and perhaps narrow their viewing options by one network. The next time America or Americans suffer at the hands of terrorists, thank CBS.
June 11th, 2004 at 1:00 pm
To quote John Stewart, “We have to get rid of the weapons of mass documentation, folks!”
Your long-winded (I got the gist and skipped the rest) post is not completely without merit. There has been a great harm done by the release of these pictures. So in that respect I can understand how you might draw the conclusion that CBS is to blame.
You are, of course, completely wrong.
CBS didn’t commit these crimes. They brought them to light, so that they would not happen again. They brought them to the public debate, because being honest about a situation is American. The person who gave the pictures to CBS was afraid that the issue would be swept under the rug, with the enlisted soldiers punished, and with no thought given to the culpability of superiors. Now that it is in the light of the public, the Rule Of Law, which it is my patriotic duty to
make sure is upheld, stands a greater chance.
If you like, feel free to assure me that the responsible parties would be taken care of. Cite, if you will. Call theories that don’t coincide with yours crackpot, or whackjob. But you can’t deny that this is a huge issue that needs to be given the widest possible exposure. If this is an isolated incident(it’s not), then perhaps the harm outweighed the good, and perhaps a case could be made. But how was CBS to know that? Why should they assume that? And, furthermore, since you now know that abuse is not limited to one unsupervised unit, how on EARTH can you claim that CBS was not acting in the America’s best interests?
If you wish to never again watch CBS, go right ahead. Whackjob.
Your posting as Anonymous is convenient, because it gives you plausible deniability in the future, when the media does something that you like, because it doesn’t hurt Your Guy, eg Novak and the Plame case.
I wish there was a preview button.
June 11th, 2004 at 1:47 pm
And while we’re at it, I think it’s high time we deal with the people most responsible for every single murder, rape, and theft in this country: the police.
Damn them for bringing these despicable acts to light. Every time they air our dirty laundry in public, they make it seem like America is full of muderers, thieves, and rapists! What about America’s image with all our allies around the world? And what about America’s own self image and confidence in their leaders?
When the police receive evidence of a crime, they should quietly, discreetly, contact the perpetrator, and nicely ask him whehter he’s planning on doing it again. As long as he says that he’s looking into the issue, it should just be left at that.
June 12th, 2004 at 11:49 pm
So let me get this straight anon. . .
“Shock and awe”, an excercize as much meant to captivate the American imagination about how gee-whiz neato our military is as well as incinerate the Iraqi human vessels they landed on was just normal fare for a serious nation heading into a serious war? Tell us how announcing how spectacular our attack would be and then broadcasting it and rebroadcasting on every network that “does news”, the most telegenic explosions and great plumes of smoke we were able to have wrought on the innocent people living in the city of Baghdad? Was the fear that we struck into every last child in that city worth the bargain price we paid to have our synthetic American egos stroked by synthetic televised images at how mighty and untouchable our military is?
CBS along with FOXNBCMSNABC broadcast image after image of what we knew full well was probably causing on the surface of planet Earth situated near the confluence of the Tigris and Euphrates. We got to see the explosions and fires and vacuum concussions just like we see our tackles, touchdowns, bodychecks, slam dunks and goals — on TV.
You tell me what the reality is. Is the media less real when it covers what really happens in a racist, imperial war? Or is it more real when they only broadcast ego boosting propagnada? Somewhere therein lies the reality that you, anonymous, live in. I just don’t know how you or anybody finds any of this acceptable. This isn’t a game. We unleashed a hideous reality onto innocent people who’s only crime was to have been born Iraqi. They didn’t even come to the field suited up. They were merely going about their business as you do yours. Nobody has the right to take that away from somebody else. To sleep in your bed unafraid. To have food in your pantry. To walk the street, man, woman and child, disconcerned that this stroll will be their last. How the fuck dare you?
Me and many of my friends travel the world in some form, every chance we get. There is something to behold no matter where you go on this beautiful planet. It is there for you too as long as you respect it. But this comes from diligently recognizing the equal humanity of others, no matter how culturally remote from you. This is they way it is.
You can either destroy it or you can make of it what it is. Organized war, no matter how much you may lie to yourself about it necessity, is not natural. Henceforth, nature shall snuff you out. As it will us all one day anyways. I intend on living, not killing or making others miserable.
June 12th, 2004 at 11:52 pm
whoops. mucho typos and unfinished thoughts in that one. sorry. . .
June 14th, 2004 at 12:59 pm
I know I’m going to sound like a broken record – but isn’t it amazing how people who most the most inflammatory stuff on other people’s sites aren’t willing to sign their names? Crapweasels.
June 14th, 2004 at 8:06 pm
Nothing wrong with sticking to an issue. Sometimes it’s the way something gets done about it.
My issue is flagrant abuse of Floridas criminal justice systen by Rush Limbaugh, the state prosecutor of the county he resides in, and Jeb Bush for not making an example of him seeing as how his own daughter did time.
Rush has that much political pull? Or was it just politically smarter to incarcerate his own daughter.
But yeah stick to the issue. Theres big fish at the end of the hook, and somebody has to play it.
June 15th, 2004 at 5:39 pm
Adam — why do you insist on always attacking someone’s credibility based on the fact that they don’t “sign” their posts? While I agree that this individual is not credible due to his blatant ignorance, it seems that rather than discuss the points being made you merely discredit this anonymous author based solely on his anonymity. As you always do.
For such an outspoken fag, you sure don’t seem to keen on discussion. This forum allows anonymous posts for a reason, STFU about it already.
June 15th, 2004 at 7:32 pm
Former Fan (whoever the hell you are):
I was making a completely legitimate point about taking responsibility for your words, especially when they are inflammatory. I always take responsibility for what I write online, and I think everyone else should too – especially when they are throwing bombs.
I could have responded in detail to Anonymous’ rant, but other people got there before me, and did a fine job of it.
I love online debate, and I’ve been kicked off several right-wing sites because of my respectful and reasoned comments. So forgive me if I get a little bent out of shape when people hide and don’t take responsibility for what they write.
June 17th, 2004 at 6:46 am
You’re proud of getting kicked off of websites? I’m sorry, but most people don’t get booted for calm and measured discussions. Thanks for proving my underlying point.
June 17th, 2004 at 7:15 am
When did he say he was proud of being kicked off? He just said that he had reasonable and respectful debates on right-wing sites and got kicked off. I don’t see how he proved your point or how you twisted his words to get to your statement.
June 17th, 2004 at 7:23 am
Heh. At least based on this thread, I think Adam wins the calm-and-measured trophy. Former Fan called him “an outspoken fag”, which Adam completely ignored, treating instead with the substance of Former Fan’s comment (such as it was).
Point Blust.
June 17th, 2004 at 10:43 am
“When did he say he was proud of being kicked off?”
When he bothered to mention in in support of his theory that he’s “calm and measured.” Bush is calm and measured, that doesn’t mean he’s right.
June 23rd, 2004 at 10:53 am
D A V I D !!!!!
Last I checked the general public is not fighting this war, it is the US MILITARY. SO next time you want to consider the public to decide about war crimes, then you and everyone else in America can get shipped out to Iraq and fight along side the military, bullet for bullet, MRE for MRE. How ignorant are you? There’s this big legal document that is called the UCMJ – Uniform Code Of Military Justice, not the Uniformed Code of the American Public Justice. Think about that. It frustrates me that all you assmunches don’t support us. I’d rather let Saddam or a terrorist get a hold of you and let them kill your family or torture you, then see how you feel about how buisness is done by the Miltary over in Iraq. I’m sure you’d have a different view about it then. IF YOU CAN SHOW ME IN THE UCMJ WHERE IT SAYS THE AMERICAN PUBLIC DECIDES WHAT HAPPENS TO MILITARY VIOLATERS OR THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW EVERYTHING THAT GOES ON THEN I WILL CHANGE MY VIEW BUT SINCE I’M IN THE MILITARY AND KNOW THE UCMJ PRETTY WELL YOU’RE NOT GOING TO FIND ANYTHING!!!! Good Luck – asshole!
July 8th, 2004 at 4:27 pm
Bush has clearly condoned torture and entered a war on behalf of his military-oil-industrial cronies rather than any real motive on behalf of the US.
I don’t think he’s an Arnold, but I think he should be replaced in Nov and America should never look back.
Faisal Hoque