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	<title>Comments on: Oil and Water</title>
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	<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2010/05/30/oil-and-water/</link>
	<description>believe nothing...</description>
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		<title>By: knarlyknight</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2010/05/30/oil-and-water/#comment-200988</link>
		<dc:creator>knarlyknight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 06:54:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/?p=4294#comment-200988</guid>
		<description>www.xkcd.com/748/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.xkcd.com/748/" rel="nofollow">http://www.xkcd.com/748/</a></p>
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		<title>By: shcb</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2010/05/30/oil-and-water/#comment-200898</link>
		<dc:creator>shcb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jun 2010 23:00:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/?p=4294#comment-200898</guid>
		<description>Doesn&#039;t look like Salizar read the whole thing either, of course my not reading it well wasn&#039;t going to put thousands of people out of work.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/10/experts-say-obama-misrepresented-views-justify-offshore-drilling-ban/?utm_source=feedburner&amp;utm_medium=feed&amp;utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foxnews%2Fpolitics+%28Text+-+Politics%29&amp;utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher

Ken is a nice enough guy but come on, claiming something was &quot;peer reviewed&quot; after you added a couple paragraphs isn&#039;t very smart. This whole peer reviewed process is getting a bad rap lately isn&#039;t it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doesn&#8217;t look like Salizar read the whole thing either, of course my not reading it well wasn&#8217;t going to put thousands of people out of work.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/10/experts-say-obama-misrepresented-views-justify-offshore-drilling-ban/?utm_source=feedburner&#038;utm_medium=feed&#038;utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foxnews%2Fpolitics+%28Text+-+Politics%29&#038;utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher" rel="nofollow">http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/10/experts-say-obama-misrepresented-views-justify-offshore-drilling-ban/?utm_source=feedburner&#038;utm_medium=feed&#038;utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foxnews%2Fpolitics+%28Text+-+Politics%29&#038;utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher</a></p>
<p>Ken is a nice enough guy but come on, claiming something was &#8220;peer reviewed&#8221; after you added a couple paragraphs isn&#8217;t very smart. This whole peer reviewed process is getting a bad rap lately isn&#8217;t it.</p>
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		<title>By: shcb</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2010/05/30/oil-and-water/#comment-200897</link>
		<dc:creator>shcb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jun 2010 21:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/?p=4294#comment-200897</guid>
		<description>That was my bad, I didn&#039;t read what you said close enough and the article won&#039;t open on my computer at work, it is so flippin old. Sorry about that, I pulled an Enky and just skimmed a few key words off your comment and ran with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was my bad, I didn&#8217;t read what you said close enough and the article won&#8217;t open on my computer at work, it is so flippin old. Sorry about that, I pulled an Enky and just skimmed a few key words off your comment and ran with it.</p>
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		<title>By: knarlyknight</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2010/05/30/oil-and-water/#comment-200891</link>
		<dc:creator>knarlyknight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jun 2010 16:43:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/?p=4294#comment-200891</guid>
		<description>shcb, you&#039;re so frickin brilliant it&#039;s scary. It&#039;s absolutely amazing the way you come up with these facts.  But just so you know, there is a whole lot more damnation due to Obama (and Bush) than that.  Do yourself a favour and read the article next time before commenting on it so you don&#039;t come  off looking like such a brilliant dolt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>shcb, you&#8217;re so frickin brilliant it&#8217;s scary. It&#8217;s absolutely amazing the way you come up with these facts.  But just so you know, there is a whole lot more damnation due to Obama (and Bush) than that.  Do yourself a favour and read the article next time before commenting on it so you don&#8217;t come  off looking like such a brilliant dolt.</p>
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		<title>By: NorthernLite</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2010/05/30/oil-and-water/#comment-200890</link>
		<dc:creator>NorthernLite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jun 2010 14:44:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/?p=4294#comment-200890</guid>
		<description>BP Bob:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHxIcg0adXU</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BP Bob:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHxIcg0adXU" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHxIcg0adXU</a></p>
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		<title>By: shcb</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2010/05/30/oil-and-water/#comment-200889</link>
		<dc:creator>shcb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jun 2010 14:11:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/?p=4294#comment-200889</guid>
		<description>Knarly,

Without reading the article and without defending any previous administration, the Obama administration has had two years and both houses to change anything that Bush did wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Knarly,</p>
<p>Without reading the article and without defending any previous administration, the Obama administration has had two years and both houses to change anything that Bush did wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: knarlyknight</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2010/05/30/oil-and-water/#comment-200879</link>
		<dc:creator>knarlyknight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jun 2010 06:29:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/?p=4294#comment-200879</guid>
		<description>re-think</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re-think</p>
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		<title>By: knarlyknight</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2010/05/30/oil-and-water/#comment-200878</link>
		<dc:creator>knarlyknight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jun 2010 06:28:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/?p=4294#comment-200878</guid>
		<description>NL, the BP execs should be subjected to a firing squad and then given a fair trial.  shcb was right, this was Obama&#039;s Katrina - but the difference is that Obama did not create the Hurricane for Bush, and Bush pretty much set up the BP disaster for Obama.  I am not shifting blame here, there is sufficient blame in this disaster to fry both Bush and Obama and their administrations.  The whole mess simply highlights the utter failure of the American system of governance; and how badly it lies to you.  Seriously.  

shcb, before responding, do yourself a favour and read this artile thoroughly, concentrating on grasping the full spectrum of how deregulation generally in the early Bush years and neutering of the Minerals Management Service specifically,   set up the circumstances where this disaster became a near certainty which was then mismanaged by Obama, rather than pulling out snippets for your petty partisan snarks.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/111965?RS_show_page=7

Enk - You were right, it&#039;s going to take a long time to clean up Bush&#039;s &quot;legacy&quot;.  I do not think Obama is capable of fixing your problems, but sadly there is no-one more capable of doing so on the horizon.  Maaybe it is time to e-think who owns and runs America? - because from here it is clear it is not the citizenry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NL, the BP execs should be subjected to a firing squad and then given a fair trial.  shcb was right, this was Obama&#8217;s Katrina &#8211; but the difference is that Obama did not create the Hurricane for Bush, and Bush pretty much set up the BP disaster for Obama.  I am not shifting blame here, there is sufficient blame in this disaster to fry both Bush and Obama and their administrations.  The whole mess simply highlights the utter failure of the American system of governance; and how badly it lies to you.  Seriously.  </p>
<p>shcb, before responding, do yourself a favour and read this artile thoroughly, concentrating on grasping the full spectrum of how deregulation generally in the early Bush years and neutering of the Minerals Management Service specifically,   set up the circumstances where this disaster became a near certainty which was then mismanaged by Obama, rather than pulling out snippets for your petty partisan snarks.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/111965?RS_show_page=7" rel="nofollow">http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/111965?RS_show_page=7</a></p>
<p>Enk &#8211; You were right, it&#8217;s going to take a long time to clean up Bush&#8217;s &#8220;legacy&#8221;.  I do not think Obama is capable of fixing your problems, but sadly there is no-one more capable of doing so on the horizon.  Maaybe it is time to e-think who owns and runs America? &#8211; because from here it is clear it is not the citizenry.</p>
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		<title>By: NorthernLite</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2010/05/30/oil-and-water/#comment-200865</link>
		<dc:creator>NorthernLite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jun 2010 14:39:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/?p=4294#comment-200865</guid>
		<description>Dolphin carcases, hundreds of millions of destroyed fish eggs, dead wildlife everywhere but don&#039;t worry... &quot;they&#039;re in control.&quot;

Did you guys see that video comparing “Baghdad Bob” (the old Iraqi Information Minister” to the BP execs? It was on Olberman last night and I’m trying to track it down but no luck yet. It’s hilarious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dolphin carcases, hundreds of millions of destroyed fish eggs, dead wildlife everywhere but don&#8217;t worry&#8230; &#8220;they&#8217;re in control.&#8221;</p>
<p>Did you guys see that video comparing “Baghdad Bob” (the old Iraqi Information Minister” to the BP execs? It was on Olberman last night and I’m trying to track it down but no luck yet. It’s hilarious.</p>
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		<title>By: knarlyknight</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2010/05/30/oil-and-water/#comment-200811</link>
		<dc:creator>knarlyknight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jun 2010 03:08:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/?p=4294#comment-200811</guid>
		<description>Coincidence or any connection to widespread spraying of record amounts of industrial solvents over the Gulf of Mexico?  Were winds from the south or SE over the past 40 days? 

http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-mystery-crop-damage%2C0%2C187535.story?track=rss</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coincidence or any connection to widespread spraying of record amounts of industrial solvents over the Gulf of Mexico?  Were winds from the south or SE over the past 40 days? </p>
<p><a href="http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-mystery-crop-damage%2C0%2C187535.story?track=rss" rel="nofollow">http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-mystery-crop-damage%2C0%2C187535.story?track=rss</a></p>
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		<title>By: knarlyknight</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2010/05/30/oil-and-water/#comment-200792</link>
		<dc:creator>knarlyknight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jun 2010 17:28:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/?p=4294#comment-200792</guid>
		<description>NL,

Indeed, they have enough to worry about in trying to bring the cod stocks back and praying another disaster doesn&#039;t happen while drilling deep sea wells in far more challenging waters than the Gulf of Mexico. 

The flip side is that just because the oil is getting eaten by the Atlantic, that does not mean that everything is coming up roses.  The oil is sickening the ecosystems wherever it goes, but by far the greater tragedy is the biological magnification of the industrial solvents (aka poisons) such as Corexit that were (still are?) being sprayed in vast quantities over the slick in the Gulf.  This is one big science experiment except without any real observers and nothing to tie the health damages in people and animals 1, 2, 5, 10 or 25 years from now to this &quot;experiment&quot;. In other words it is stupid and insane.  I&#039;m not being arrogant, all the info is there,  BP wants the oil to sink and mix in with lower levels of the ocean so it is out of sight and so they can save on clean-up costs.  No-one is effectively sticking up for the subsurface biosphere and in the end the poisons and death will affect the surface as well.  As they teach in grade 1, it&#039;s all connected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NL,</p>
<p>Indeed, they have enough to worry about in trying to bring the cod stocks back and praying another disaster doesn&#8217;t happen while drilling deep sea wells in far more challenging waters than the Gulf of Mexico. </p>
<p>The flip side is that just because the oil is getting eaten by the Atlantic, that does not mean that everything is coming up roses.  The oil is sickening the ecosystems wherever it goes, but by far the greater tragedy is the biological magnification of the industrial solvents (aka poisons) such as Corexit that were (still are?) being sprayed in vast quantities over the slick in the Gulf.  This is one big science experiment except without any real observers and nothing to tie the health damages in people and animals 1, 2, 5, 10 or 25 years from now to this &#8220;experiment&#8221;. In other words it is stupid and insane.  I&#8217;m not being arrogant, all the info is there,  BP wants the oil to sink and mix in with lower levels of the ocean so it is out of sight and so they can save on clean-up costs.  No-one is effectively sticking up for the subsurface biosphere and in the end the poisons and death will affect the surface as well.  As they teach in grade 1, it&#8217;s all connected.</p>
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		<title>By: NorthernLite</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2010/05/30/oil-and-water/#comment-200753</link>
		<dc:creator>NorthernLite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jun 2010 18:44:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/?p=4294#comment-200753</guid>
		<description>knarly, It appears you&#039;re right and that most simulations show it won&#039;t reach our East Coast. Which is very good news for those folks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>knarly, It appears you&#8217;re right and that most simulations show it won&#8217;t reach our East Coast. Which is very good news for those folks.</p>
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		<title>By: shcb</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2010/05/30/oil-and-water/#comment-200636</link>
		<dc:creator>shcb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jun 2010 13:53:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/?p=4294#comment-200636</guid>
		<description>That was really good, I actually read the whole thing. I disagree with him on a few items; he seems to think that the more complex the system is the more prone to failure it is, this is true to an extent, the more parts, the more chances for failure, but over simplification can be worse. When you layer systems on top of systems you are usually not reducing the risk of failure, although sometimes you are, usually you are using those systems to mitigate damage when the system below it does fail. In many cases you can use monitoring systems to shut down the initial system with a backup system, shutting down the first system in a controlled manner, battery backup systems for computers comes to mind. 

The trick is to do it properly, in this case it seems the one system they are missing is the predrilling of the hole they are now drilling. The rig would have failed, people would have died, oil would have spilled, but presumably it would have been able to be relieved in a matter of days, so yes we would still have a big oil spill, but not a huge spill of biblical proportions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was really good, I actually read the whole thing. I disagree with him on a few items; he seems to think that the more complex the system is the more prone to failure it is, this is true to an extent, the more parts, the more chances for failure, but over simplification can be worse. When you layer systems on top of systems you are usually not reducing the risk of failure, although sometimes you are, usually you are using those systems to mitigate damage when the system below it does fail. In many cases you can use monitoring systems to shut down the initial system with a backup system, shutting down the first system in a controlled manner, battery backup systems for computers comes to mind. </p>
<p>The trick is to do it properly, in this case it seems the one system they are missing is the predrilling of the hole they are now drilling. The rig would have failed, people would have died, oil would have spilled, but presumably it would have been able to be relieved in a matter of days, so yes we would still have a big oil spill, but not a huge spill of biblical proportions.</p>
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		<title>By: knarlyknight</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2010/05/30/oil-and-water/#comment-200611</link>
		<dc:creator>knarlyknight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jun 2010 05:53:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/?p=4294#comment-200611</guid>
		<description>This is good: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-ostertag/causes-and-consequences-o_b_599257.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is good: <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-ostertag/causes-and-consequences-o_b_599257.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-ostertag/causes-and-consequences-o_b_599257.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: knarlyknight</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2010/05/30/oil-and-water/#comment-200573</link>
		<dc:creator>knarlyknight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jun 2010 05:43:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/?p=4294#comment-200573</guid>
		<description>NL - it won&#039;t get to  Eastern Canada.  North Carolina spawnibg grounds may be affected bad, but before it gets to Canada it&#039;ll evaporate, sink, disperse, etc. and basically get eaten up by the mighty Atlantic. Nature might not be able to deal with a slick near the site of the oil gushing out of a 20 inch diameter pipe, and won&#039;t be able to deal with it for a few hundred miles from the source until a few decades have passed, and even a thousand miles the spill will have devastation for a few years, but over the 4 thousand miles it would need to drift up to Canada, it&#039;ll be unnoticeable to all but the most sensitive instruments and lifeforms.  Despite the computer simulations based on hypothetical release of dyes ...  http://www2.ucar.edu/news/ocean-currents-likely-to-carry-oil-spill-along-atlantic-coast</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NL &#8211; it won&#8217;t get to  Eastern Canada.  North Carolina spawnibg grounds may be affected bad, but before it gets to Canada it&#8217;ll evaporate, sink, disperse, etc. and basically get eaten up by the mighty Atlantic. Nature might not be able to deal with a slick near the site of the oil gushing out of a 20 inch diameter pipe, and won&#8217;t be able to deal with it for a few hundred miles from the source until a few decades have passed, and even a thousand miles the spill will have devastation for a few years, but over the 4 thousand miles it would need to drift up to Canada, it&#8217;ll be unnoticeable to all but the most sensitive instruments and lifeforms.  Despite the computer simulations based on hypothetical release of dyes &#8230;  <a href="http://www2.ucar.edu/news/ocean-currents-likely-to-carry-oil-spill-along-atlantic-coast" rel="nofollow">http://www2.ucar.edu/news/ocean-currents-likely-to-carry-oil-spill-along-atlantic-coast</a></p>
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		<title>By: NorthernLite</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2010/05/30/oil-and-water/#comment-200557</link>
		<dc:creator>NorthernLite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 20:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/?p=4294#comment-200557</guid>
		<description>And now they&#039;re reporting up here that the oil is going to make it&#039;s way to our East Coast. This is the poorest area of our country and tourism and fishing is all they have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And now they&#8217;re reporting up here that the oil is going to make it&#8217;s way to our East Coast. This is the poorest area of our country and tourism and fishing is all they have.</p>
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		<title>By: shcb</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2010/05/30/oil-and-water/#comment-200556</link>
		<dc:creator>shcb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 19:49:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/?p=4294#comment-200556</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t agree with James C very often but he hit it on the head on this one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t agree with James C very often but he hit it on the head on this one.</p>
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		<title>By: leftbehind</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2010/05/30/oil-and-water/#comment-200550</link>
		<dc:creator>leftbehind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 17:20:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/?p=4294#comment-200550</guid>
		<description>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtvoLrQBxis

&quot;...what they said...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtvoLrQBxis" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtvoLrQBxis</a></p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;what they said&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: NorthernLite</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2010/05/30/oil-and-water/#comment-200539</link>
		<dc:creator>NorthernLite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 13:35:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/?p=4294#comment-200539</guid>
		<description>I think Obama will take a hit for this, and he should. He campaigned heavily on being more competent and environmentally friendly than the previous administration and so far I don&#039;t see either. He seemed really slow to respond to this and had a very hands off approach for the first 30 days. Whether that’s fair assessment or not I really don’t give a damn at this point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Obama will take a hit for this, and he should. He campaigned heavily on being more competent and environmentally friendly than the previous administration and so far I don&#8217;t see either. He seemed really slow to respond to this and had a very hands off approach for the first 30 days. Whether that’s fair assessment or not I really don’t give a damn at this point.</p>
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		<title>By: shcb</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2010/05/30/oil-and-water/#comment-200536</link>
		<dc:creator>shcb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 13:16:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/?p=4294#comment-200536</guid>
		<description>There you go, all good points, so the question still remains, can and will Republicans make the point that Obama and his administration should have required these safety devices, remember they own the government right now, no regulation or law will be voted down on a party line vote. So just because the Republicans were in power before doesn&#039;t exempt Democrats now. Of course Democrats will counter as you did above. Then the question is who will voters in Peoria believe? 

There is also the fact that this was manmade and therefore somewhat preventable, a hurricane isn&#039;t. This disastor was also small and well contained at the start, look at the picture at the top of this page, flat seas. Katrina was huge, and the damage to NO largely preventable. 

Now I don&#039;t blame Obama any more than I blame Bush for Katrina, they are only the president, there is only so much they can do, they are not king nor God, but uninformed and pissed off voters don&#039;t know that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There you go, all good points, so the question still remains, can and will Republicans make the point that Obama and his administration should have required these safety devices, remember they own the government right now, no regulation or law will be voted down on a party line vote. So just because the Republicans were in power before doesn&#8217;t exempt Democrats now. Of course Democrats will counter as you did above. Then the question is who will voters in Peoria believe? </p>
<p>There is also the fact that this was manmade and therefore somewhat preventable, a hurricane isn&#8217;t. This disastor was also small and well contained at the start, look at the picture at the top of this page, flat seas. Katrina was huge, and the damage to NO largely preventable. </p>
<p>Now I don&#8217;t blame Obama any more than I blame Bush for Katrina, they are only the president, there is only so much they can do, they are not king nor God, but uninformed and pissed off voters don&#8217;t know that.</p>
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