Healthcare Hyperbole to Maximum
The HealthScare ‘debate’ is sure heating up here in the good ol USofA (must be all them heaters folks is bringing to the townhall meet-n-greets).
Recently the Investors Daily Bulletin claimed:
“The controlling of medical costs in countries such as Britain through rationing, and the health consequences thereof, are legendary. The stories of people dying on a waiting list or being denied altogether read like a horror script … People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn’t have a chance in the UK, where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless.“
Ummm, folks, Stephen Hawking is from the UK, where he has had the Evil Socialized Medicine his entire life. But don’t trust me on this, Professor Hawking can and has responded (read this back in a computer voice for best effect)
“I wouldn’t be here today if it were not for the NHS,” Professor Hawking told us. “I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived.”
Also congratulations are in order: Professor Hawking was just awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom by our President. Well done sirs, well done.
August 14th, 2009 at 5:23 am
Not taking a stance pro or con, but does anybody really think this health care thing is going to happen anymore?
August 14th, 2009 at 5:45 am
…and as a single professional with good insurance, should I even care if it does or not? Whether I’m paying the government or paying an insurance company, I’ll still be paying a lot for healthcare, and will probably have the same access to treatment, as well as the same chance of being denied certain advanced treatment either way it goes.
Oh, and Steven Hawking is a dumb example for anyone to bring up on either side of a health care debate. Hawking has enough money to survive under any health care system.
August 14th, 2009 at 6:43 am
What is likely to happen LB is you will pay the single payer fee in your taxes, won’t be satisfied with the service, and will then opt for more coverage to go to better doctors with less wait. So you will be paying the same or more likely more than you are paying now in taxes for socialized health care, and then pay again if you want the service you now enjoy. I believe this is how it works in England. In Canada you use the single payer option for routine care and go to America if you need something more. A secondary market will rise to fill that gap… unless the government doesn’t want that competition, then it simply makes it illegal. It is easier to be successful in a competitive market if you get to set the rules as you go. Remember CalvinBall from the Calvin and Hobbs cartoon?
August 14th, 2009 at 9:04 am
Thanks for your opinion shcb. You make big assumptions and seem to have a lack of faith that Americans can set up a good health care system. I would only agree that if America sets up a lousy universal coverage health care system then people will look for treatment elsewhere. Duh. However, I’ve never known anyone – anyone – in Canada who sought treatment elsewhere for medically necessary or elective procedures. I’m sure there are examples, then again just ask yourself how many Americans abuse the border to get access to Canada’s health care. As for other treatments, same thing, e.g. you may be surprised that we have an adequate supply of plastic surgeons who choose to conduct their practice in Canada rather than Vegas. Go figure.
The Hawking quote is amusing and LB seems to have missed the point that an even dumber assertion was made that the UK system would not have served his needs. My guess is that the UK has contributed hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars for his care since his disease progressed as a young adult. Was his family rich or something, and if so LB should explain where else he received treatment in his early years before he had the financial means and immense respect that brought him leading edge treatment taht was not yet available to everyone in the UK.
Anyone else see that Olberman segment about Palin’s death panel lies?
” “The America I know and love,” the quitter governor of Alaska Sarah Palin began, “is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s ‘death panel’ so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their ‘level of productivity in society,’ whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.”
Of course it is, Ms. Palin, and that is why it does not exist, has not existed, and would never, under this president, nor any other president, ever exist, in this country.
There is no ‘death panel.’ There is no judgment based on societal productivity. There is no worthiness test. But there is downright evil, and Ms. Palin, you just served its cause. ”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32363493/ns/msnbc_tv-countdown_with_keith_olbermann
August 14th, 2009 at 10:04 am
I assume shcb is referring to that fat lady the American right paid to be in their commericals. She’s been completely exposed as a fraud up here and she can’t even go out in public becuase she went on American television (for bug bucks) trashed our most scared treasure (our HC system) and turns it she just had a cyst in her brain – not a tumah! She didn’t want to wait a bit to have it taken out (wasn’t life-threatening) so she mortaged her house and paid a $100,000 to have something done she could have done for free if she was just a little more patient.
She’s what we call up here an idiot.
August 14th, 2009 at 10:17 am
I’ve heard several anecdotal stories from people I actually know and of course there are many others. Jon Caldera had an example this week where he needed an MRI and was in and out in a couple days here in America, a friend of his needed the same procedure and the doctors in Canada told him it would be 53 weeks before they could get him in, unless he saw a specialist, but he needed an MRI before he could see a specialist. So he came to America. As to the Americans that are going to Canada, that is to buy drugs. As we have discussed in the past, your government has blackmailed the American pharmaceutical to sell them drugs at generic prices to get around patent rights of the pharmaceuticals to keep their costs down, more fascism.
As is usually the case with socialism, we will have “adequate” care, it will just be less than what we have now, new breakthroughs will be slower, there will be rationing and long lines, all for more money. But we will all be in misery together, a hallmark of socialism. Happy days are here again.
August 14th, 2009 at 10:18 am
sorry NL, first I’ve heard of that
August 14th, 2009 at 11:29 am
Well shcb a few years back I had a 2 week wait for an MRI for something far from potentially life threatening and I know someone with migrains who had an MRI a couple days after her Doctor requested it. This is in our city / province that supposedly does not have sufficient resources compared to other regions and larger cities. So I’d say your MRI assessment is wrong. I’ve heard that waits are long, so maybe I just get special treatment under the “socialized health care” system because I’m such a nice guy?
August 14th, 2009 at 11:47 am
Gasp! Omg, fascism!
Stop impeding rational debate.
We live longer. Our care is way cheaper. Our drugs are cheaper, because we regulate the industry.
If that’s fascism, socialism or whatever other buzzword the insurance industry wants you to use, then so be it. It’s saving my mom’s life.
It works better than your system.
August 14th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
It’s hard to know what to believe. I had two old friends that I watched die slow deaths because they couldn’t get care in time in VA hospitals or couldn’t get social security benefits in time, and then like you Knarly I had a hernia that was potentially life threatening but something I had probably lived with since I was 6, I was on the table by the end of the week. Same question, was it because of my good looks or social status, fat chance on either count.
Back to LB’s point, I have no doubt that most people will receive adequate care because most people don’t get sick that often. As in so many topics it comes down to an ideological decision of who do you trust, the government or private enterprise. It’s hard to make apples to apples comparisons since in either case we don’t have a parallel universe where we can have everything the same except that one thing we are discussing. How dependent is Canada’s system on America? Have we come so far down the path to socialized medicine already that this bill is just a little blip anyway? I don’t know.
August 14th, 2009 at 9:27 pm
If wanting affordable health care makes you a fascist, I guess I had better put on my black shirt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackshirts (Just in case anyone is confused about black vs brown)
August 16th, 2009 at 7:33 am
You can get to most any destination in a number of different ways, if your destination is affordable health care and your path is down the Health Insurance Exchange path then you are following a fascist path, from a clinical standpoint, government is controlling private industry. If you, like I, prefer something more akin to MSAs then you are following more of a conservative/libertarian path (capitalistic) I’m not equating anyone to a Nazi or anything, fascism is a legitimate economic model that I don’t like, just as I don’t like socialism or communism, I recognize in any system there will always be parts of all these models throughout the fabric of the economy, I just want to keep the fascism and socialism to a minimum.
Of course plans like MSAs have been proven to be more affordable, the current plan even on its face is going to be less affordable to society as a whole, it may be cheaper to a few individuals, and the premiums may be cheaper but the added costs as a whole are simply going to be passed through the employer to the consumer who are the workers receiving the lower premiums, Peter paying Paul.
http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/111/exchange.pdf
I like how “including a new public health insurance option. “ is in a small font
August 16th, 2009 at 8:03 am
So, is “fascist” the latest right wing talking point, or do you just not think “socialist” will affect anyone here? Since you so enjoy discussing the technical aspects of “fascism”, I’d love to know how people on the right are able to simultaneously claim that “liberals aren’t patriotic and/or hate America” and “liberals are trying to create a system of government that is reliant upon extreme nationalism.” You can’t have it both ways. Either liberals aren’t as patriotic as conservatives, or liberals are fascist. Or, perhaps, you are unable to produce any worthwhile arguments so you are just pointing and screaming “fascism”.
Also, unlike capitalism, fascism cannot be defined solely in economic terms. Fascism by definition includes a social component. The economic component of fascism is something along the lines of “corporatism”. Of course, overuse by those who attempt to avoid reasoned debate has watered the term “fascism” down to the point that its actual definition is closer to “thing the speaker doesn’t like,” than it is to any real political ideology.
MSAs are not necessarily “free market” solutions either. Singapore, for instance, has a national (or government, socialist, fascist, whatever word you want to use here) MSA plan. A percent of each person’s salary is deducted automatically, similar to FICA.
http://www.moh.gov.sg/mohcorp/hcfinancing.aspx?id=304
mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/Members/Gen-Info/Con-Rates/ContriRates-2006.htm
August 16th, 2009 at 10:03 am
It would seem I have explained myself well enough here, but evidently not. I can’t help your thin skin on being called a fascist, you are on this subject. You said you want the insurance companies to be no more than administrators of health care monies, that is fascism. Simply outlawing insurance companies, collecting taxes and paying the medical bills would be socialism. I don’t like either, the fascist aspects will soon be replaced by the socialist aspect I am sure. The insurance companies are on board to a certain degree as administrators since even if the government is only maintaining a veneer of private ownership there are still profits to be made and there is the chance Republicans will get in power at some time and divest the government’s ownership of the industry, so they take what they can get.
When conservatives say that liberals “hate America” we don’t mean that they hate it, we mean that they hate the things that make America America. They want to have all America gives them while being more like someone else. They don’t really like rugged individualism but they like the innovations it gives them, the only aspect of capitalism they like in that it gives them a fantastic lifestyle, they don’t like the constitution unless it fits their needs at the moment. They don’t like our sets of checks and balances unless they own all the branches of government i.e. the Democrats filibustering judges. Conservatives not only love this country, we like what makes it America. But of course the problem with that is once America becomes Europe we won’t be America any more and she won’t give anyone what she does now.
Sure there is going to be a governmental involvement in MSAs, but it would make the policies transportable, the policy could be tailored to an individual’s needs at any point in their lives and there would be fierce competition just as there is in auto insurance.
August 16th, 2009 at 10:21 am
“they don’t like the constitution unless it fits their needs at the moment. They don’t like our sets of checks and balances unless they own all the branches of government i.e. the Democrats filibustering judges.”
All of this is equally true for Republicans. You and your party are so full of sour grapes it is not even funny. Two years ago you guys were bitching about how it is un-American to criticize the president, but now not a day goes by that your party doesn’t try to call the pres a fascist, socialist, commie, whatever. Oh, and where is the Republican love for individuality when people want to make individual choices about who they marry and what they do with their body? Love for businesses is not the same as love for individualism.
“I can’t help your thin skin on being called a fascist”
I could give two shits about whether or not you think I am a “fascist”. What is frustrating is trying to have a rational discussion with someone who parrots bullshit he heard from partisan talk radio, and then just starts calling people “fascists” when he gets called on his ignorance. I am annoyed because I have clearly been wasting my time trying to have a meaningful discussion with you. Talking to you is like arguing with driftwood. The log won’t say anything useful and everyone else thinks you are a fool for arguing with deadwood.
I think the others here were right about you. You have no interest in real debate and are content to just throw around talking points without bothering to apply intelligent thought to them. Let’s call a spade a spade and say that you are full of shit.
August 16th, 2009 at 11:11 am
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/16/weekinreview/16lyall.html?_r=2&ref=global-home
An illustrator I follow on Twitter posted this, I thought it was an interesting read.
August 17th, 2009 at 4:54 am
Boy, I do bring out the worst in people don’t I? to be honest, I haven’t heard anyone on the right use the word fascist to describe this health care debate, I really haven’t listened to or read a lot about in the last 2 or 3 weeks, I was in the sun putting up a thousand foot of fence, remember? It seems we agreed that for the most part Tancredo and the caller were right, I had a point or two wrong but they were pretty minor.
I was going to answer your post in the last thread, so I’ll do it here. We are in agreement that everyone needs insurance and I’m not opposed to making it unlawful to not have insurance. I just don’t like the way we are going about it. I believe you get the most out of people or situations when there is competition. It seems I am not alone, the White House is now talking about taking the public option out of the bill, good, the folks and their pitchforks have spoken.
And please, besides you, I am the only one here that has ever bothered to read the text on one of these bills. I put more effort into applying intelligent thought to these subjects than most anyone here, I’m just on the wrong side of right so that makes me full of shit in everyone else’s mind, I can live with that. Look at back posts, everyone here and on most blogs post something they found (usually on another blog) and gives it a you go girl response, from that they feel they are informed.
Oh well, we keep on carrying on.
August 17th, 2009 at 10:53 am
smith
again my thanks and condolences. You have discovered what every other rational person eventually discovers: right wing zealots simply aren’t interested in ‘debate’ or rational discourse. They aren’t right as in correct, simply right as in right wing.
wwnj
This cracked me up: “to be honest, I haven’t heard anyone on the right use the word fascist to describe this health care debate” when you yourself used it 3 times (you also used fascism 4 times) in this thread alone. Facts is so damn liberal.
plus you copy and paste stuff from Macho Mike Rosen’s web site and pass it off as ‘fact’. Then whine like a puppy about how “everyone” posts “something” from other web sites and stuff (you go girl!) lol!
wrong wing nut job, you have truly earned your nickname yet again
August 17th, 2009 at 11:00 am
Knarly – I think you need to go back and read my initial posts. I think you’re having some trouble figuring out my use of the word “either.” What said, clearly is that the use of Steven Hawking as an example in any health care debate by anyone on any side of the issue regarding any healthcare system is useless as it doesn’t prove anything. Steven Hawking is the son of Dr. Frank Hawking, a well-known medical scientist who traveled the world researching tropical diseases. When Steven Hawking was born, his father was head of the division of parasitology at the National Institute of Medical Research, which is the largest of twelve facilities managed by the Medical Research Council. I doubt Steven Hawking has ever been hurting for want of either money or adequate healthcare.
August 17th, 2009 at 11:04 am
Again, all of this just seems a lot of hot air wasted on something that’s not even going to happen…
August 17th, 2009 at 11:09 am
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090817/pl_nm/us_usa_healthcare;_ylt=ArKAFfC9FDNvaAXTcCbSSN5H2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTM2ZGZhZmNtBGFzc2V0A25tLzIwMDkwODE3L3VzX3VzYV9oZWFsdGhjYXJlBGNjb2RlA21vc3Rwb3B1bGFyBGNwb3MDMgRwb3MDMgRzZWMDeW5fdG9wX3N0b3JpZXMEc2xrA2xpYmVyYWxkZW1vYw–
August 17th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
sorry Enky, insert the word else between anyone and on. you’re worse than my HOA, they leave out entire sections of the meeting in their minutes and then spend 5 minutes of each meeting on the placement of commas.
August 17th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
right…
so you are now claiming you didn’t call Smith a fascist? I mean you only used that exact term over and over and over (oh wait does that third ‘over’ mean you used the word 3 or 4 times? quite the gotcha!) When the right wing has something constructive to contribute to the national debate, I’d like to hear it.
Anything ‘else’ you’d like to clarify?
Is your next post going to be about Federalist Paper TK421 and how we is all teh stoopid libz cuz we don’t respect your athoritah! That is your usual ‘debate’ style.
lol
August 17th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
hey lefty welcome back!
is this you?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3L2mxTmTe8
One side is angry, wants confrontation and hates the Scary Kenyan Black Man in OUR White House. The other side wants to lower skyrocketing healthcare costs and cover all Americans. Is that clear enough for everyone?
Anyone carrying an AR15 to a bush event would have been arrested, beaten or just shot outright. Can anyone dig up the examples of protesters carrying firearms to an anti-war rally? To an anti-bush demonstration? Other than law enforcement (of course).
August 17th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
That’s right, I called him a fascist, in economic terms, nothing personal, if he had countered with “your ideas are free market conservative” he would have been right. This discussion reminds me of… was it Sheila Jackson Lee that got all exercised over a congressman using the word “niggardly” in a speech, she wanted him tarred and feathered. I’m having a hard time keeping up with this conversation, is there a point?
It seems we are being constructive in the national debate, or at least we are being somewhat successful, Obama’s numbers are dropping like a rock. If we can keep socialists from destroying this country while out of power I think that is very constructive.
August 17th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
This is the shit I hate
NO ONE IS SAYING ANYTHING LIKE THAT yes I’m yelling, because I’m the one that gets chastised for being a prick when I’m trying to have a discussion. I want to see some of you liberals get off your high horse and jump all over Enky when he pulls this crap JUST ONCE.
August 18th, 2009 at 4:13 am
SHCB – please keep in mind that the guy who is currently on your case for calling Smith a fascist is the same guy who accused me of wanting to make skin lamps out John and his family because I disagreed with him over something so insignificant, I can’t remember what the argument was about. That should put things in perspective…
August 18th, 2009 at 4:22 am
Enky – thanks for the Youtube link. I saw that item when it was first aired, and I was afraid that gun nut might have been your dad – but I looked him up and found this youtube video, which shows him to be okay, out of jail, and in pretty good spirits:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z37F66PzxZk
August 18th, 2009 at 5:00 am
NL,
I know I shouldn’t get so upset, I’ve been through this so many times before but for some reason I saw red last evening. And it wasn’t at Enky, he is who he is, I was mad at the mob, who is more to blame, the rapist or the passerby that watched and did nothing to stop it, well obviously the rapist, but the passersby has some responsibilities as well.
I was making a legitimate distinction of government overregulation to the point that private ownership is a mere illusion. That is 12 words that I accurately condensed to one. Political correctness has its limits.
August 18th, 2009 at 6:26 am
oops LB, not NL
August 18th, 2009 at 7:03 am
awww poor lil ricky, hit a nerve there didn’t I
seriously, when you nutbars have something productive to add to the healthcare ‘debate’ we’ll be here trying to fix things. Until then, sit down, take a deep breath and stfu. Your statement that NO ONE IS SAYING ANYTHING LIKE THAT is non-factual (see rush, glenn [batshitcrazy] beck townhall ‘protesters’ and your own statements calling anyone who disagrees with you fascists. simple easily verifiable facts.)
mcfrootloop, sorry but that is a lie. Sgt Slaughter wanted to kill jbc and his family and make “fukin lampshades” from their skin. Something to do with opposing the Iraq War iirc.
August 18th, 2009 at 8:03 am
Yes, and you were the one who brought “Sgt Slaughter” up in a completely unrelated conversation to try to compare me with him and paint me with the same brush although I had said nothing incendiary or violent, in the same manner you have tried to depict me as being in league, on this very thread, with some guy who brought a gun to an Obama gathering, even though I have said nothing violent on this thread, or any other towards Obama or anyone else.
As far as adding anything to the healthcare debate, I’ve done a lot more than you have. I’ve asked two sensible questions on this thread, both of which you are too stupid to even address, much less answer adequately. Since when does “ugh,duh, me good guy, you bad man” qualify as adding anything to a debate?
August 18th, 2009 at 8:10 am
Enky, we’ve known each other for a few years now, and over the course of our, erm, friendship, you have accused me of hitting people with tanks, making lamps out of human skin, engaging in pederasty, prostitution and “bareback pig fucking.” I have been equated with “genocidal racists,” murderers, child molesters, and neo-nazi’s – simply because I’ve had the temerity to disagree with you. And you’re the one calling other people out for “being angry and wanting confrontation!” That’s brilliant!
August 18th, 2009 at 8:24 am
What don’t you like about SHCB’s calling Smith a fascist, Enky? Was it that it was an awful, distorted charge to make, or that he stopped short of accusing him of consuming human skin?
August 18th, 2009 at 9:01 am
Lb – you are wrong about Hawking’s father, when he was born his father was merely a research biologist, and his father did not get the governnment job as parasitology division head at the National Institute until after he was born. Perhaps you do not understand what “after he was born” means. Or perhaps you eat seagull poop.
August 18th, 2009 at 9:04 am
LB,
To answer at least one of your reasonable questions, the reason it is important to discuss this subject even though it is probably not going to happen is because it will be back in some form or another.
August 18th, 2009 at 9:09 am
By the time Hawking was born, his father was already a graduate of Oxford University and a world renowned scientist, whether he had acquired the government job yet or not, which is beside the point, since he secured the National Institute job around the time of Stephen’s birth. Next time you put that much research time into something, you should make sure that a) you are correct and b) it even matters whether you are or not.
August 18th, 2009 at 9:11 am
lol
you can’t shoot straight can you (note, not a question)
all those things you accuse me of saying about you are – of course – lies
at least it kept you busy for half an hour
angry? I just pointed out the logical fallacy of someone who says (and I quote exactly from his own words) “to be honest, I haven’t heard anyone on the right use the word fascist to describe this health care debate” when he uses the term fascist 3 times and fascism 4 times. So is math liberal now too? Facts is liberal, but now math is too?
August 18th, 2009 at 9:11 am
Besides, Hawking wasn’t diagnosed with Lou Gehrig’s Disease until he was 21 years old, by which time his father had been enstated at the National instituteover two decades before.
August 18th, 2009 at 9:18 am
NL
One might also note that Dr Hawking was 21 when he was afflicted with the first signs of his motor neuron disease. He had NHS when he was a baby, a child and as an independent adult. The facts are all on one side, while the foolishness is all on the other of this one folks. Point to the rational people.
August 18th, 2009 at 9:18 am
hey look lefty discovered wikipedia!
August 18th, 2009 at 9:20 am
Lies, Inky? Lies you have told about me, perhaps, but anyone who has visited this blog for any period of time knows what I’m talking about, or has been subject to similar treatment. That’s probably why nobody but SHCB and I are the only ones who seem to pay any attention to you. Kind of funny how this thread of yours set dormant for two days until I posted something, then SHCB posted something, and then the thread took off.
Kept me busy for half an hour? You forget, I can type a lot faster than you do, that’s why I have so much less trouble spelling simple words, such as “moron” correctly.
August 18th, 2009 at 9:51 am
42 responses, only a handful of which even try to say anything of substance at all. Now that really IS a lot of hot air wasted on something that’s not going to happen anyway…yay us…
August 18th, 2009 at 10:14 am
Menu at Lb’s house:
Breakfast: Seagull poop
Lunch: Seagull poop
Dinner: Seagull poop
August 18th, 2009 at 10:38 am
…all washed down with a tall cup of Starbuck’s coffee. Did you know that if you hold an empty Starbuck’s cup upside down next to mirror and count to five sideways, you’ll see a 3D hologram of Crosby Stills and Nash praying to Satan in the dressing room of the Fillmore East in 1970?
August 18th, 2009 at 10:42 am
Did you know that if a seagull were hit by a passenger airliner flying 600 mph with a 67 degree angle of approach that its poop wouldn’t burn?
August 18th, 2009 at 11:15 am
LB, I would say that as a single professional you could benefit from all Americans having health care. As it is now, people just crowd emergency rooms and the tab is picked up by the tax-payer anyways. And the uninsured usually end up delaying routine things until they balloon into something worse, and much more expensive.
But I guess it all depends on your social philosophy. I too am a single professional and there’s a push in our country to start a national child-care program, similar to our health-care system. As a single guy with no kids (that I know of ;) I really wouldn’t have a direct benefit but I know that giving all children the best start possible is in my country’s best interest, so I want to see this happen.
But again, I think it depends on your views on these types of programs. I consider myself a progressive conservative, but I know that hard-core conservatives and those more to the right of me see this child-care program as more government intervention and those that can afford their own child-care don’t want to subsidize those who can’t.
August 18th, 2009 at 11:23 am
Now that’s a genuine answer – thank you.
August 18th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
in a previous post I linked to this video
http://www.lies.com/wp/2009/08/12/healthcare-hyperbole-to-maximum/#comment-160480
At the time I couldn’t tell whether he was pro or anti, but I tended towards pro-reform. Why? Well look at all the people around him with pro-reform signs. Everyone is smiling and shouting, waving their sings and peacefully demonstrating. I don’t see what the point of bringing a gun to a large gathering of people might be, other than intimidation.
Well it turns out this guy is very much anti-reform. Very much. Which makes the reaction of the pro-reform folks all the more interesting to me. No one was shouting at him, no one pushed or shoved him (sure, sure, he’d a broke out his gat and blasted the Evil Doer, so no stretch there). There weren’t pro-reform folks surrounding him with their guns (tho the police and secret service were nearby and watching him). Now ask yourself this: if a pro-reform advocate walked to the other side of the road and started this kind of provocation, what would the result be? If a anti-bush protestor had open-carried a AR-15 to a bush event, what do you think the result would have been?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63GiXzpfGhA
“Are you gonna water the tree of liberty, heh heh.” I like how the elderly guy is just quietly questioning this lunatic and shaking his head.
If this nutter wants to live in a place without laws, healthcare, taxes or government, he should move to Somalia. buh bye
extra wingnut points for the big sign at the beginning that says VACCINES = POISON (stupid beyond words)
August 19th, 2009 at 7:05 am
Are there any more good responses, like NL’s, or is this thread pretty much dead?
August 19th, 2009 at 8:34 am
“NO ONE IS SAYING ANYTHING LIKE THAT”
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/barney-frank-confronts-woman-obama-hitler
I suppose this lady isn’t using the word “nazi” despite what your ears actually hear?
They haven’t actaully drawn little Hitler mustachios on Obama’s picture?
One side is angry, wants confrontation and hates the Scary Kenyan Black Man in OUR White House. The other side wants to lower skyrocketing healthcare costs and cover all Americans. Is that clear enough for everyone?
Reality must be such a biotch for you wingnuts these days.
Let me put it in terms you can understand. bush invaded a country based on a pack of lies. There were no WMDs, there never were and wishing (or praying real hard) doesn’t make it so. bush squandered a couple trillion dollars on a counter-productive war of aggression (estimates so far range from $1T to $3T) over five years. Obama wants to expand healthcare coverage and lower costs. Possible expansion of healthcare to all Americans (a noble goal) might be $1T over ten years. And for this he is Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot all rolled into one cryptoMuslim usurper.
Indeed Barney, it is like arguing with the dining room table.
August 19th, 2009 at 10:11 am
Yep…she’s doornails, folks…
August 19th, 2009 at 10:14 am
You guys should check out this morning’s Diane Rehm show, which may be posted in the archives at NPR.org by now (or certainly by tomorrow.) some of the best analysis of this issue I’ve heard thus far.
August 19th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
Re: “Yep…she’s doornails, folks…”
Who crowned Lb as the decider of when a thread is doornails? Besides, if I wanted to hear from an a$$hole I would have farted.
August 19th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
do you smell something in this elevator? phew!
August 20th, 2009 at 4:34 am
yep…dead as nationalized health care…
August 20th, 2009 at 9:38 am
the stench is getting awful in here!
just hit the button for the next floor and we’ll take the stairs
gak!