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	<title>Comments on: Rocket Past the Details</title>
	<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/</link>
	<description>believe nothing...</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 04:49:21 +0000</pubDate>
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	<item>
		<title>by: shcb</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-83983</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 03:09:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-83983</guid>
					<description>number seven</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>number seven
</p>
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		<title>by: TeacherVet</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-75177</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-75177</guid>
					<description>After all, he does look a bit like a monk(ey).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After all, he does look a bit like a monk(ey).
</p>
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		<title>by: TeacherVet</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-75176</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-75176</guid>
					<description>Or, is the guy boasting of his ancestor's title (on his shirt).

http://www.adb.online.anu.edu.au/biogs/A100563b.htm

Or, can I buy a vowel?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or, is the guy boasting of his ancestor&#8217;s title (on his shirt).</p>
<p><a href='http://www.adb.online.anu.edu.au/biogs/A100563b.htm' rel='nofollow'>http://www.adb.online.anu.edu.au/biogs/A100563b.htm</a></p>
<p>Or, can I buy a vowel?
</p>
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	<item>
		<title>by: TeacherVet</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-75174</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:51:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-75174</guid>
					<description>Is the guy in the photo advertising?

http://www.moransoystercottage.com/

Don't fly off, Inky, I'm just kidding</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is the guy in the photo advertising?</p>
<p><a href='http://www.moransoystercottage.com/' rel='nofollow'>http://www.moransoystercottage.com/</a></p>
<p>Don&#8217;t fly off, Inky, I&#8217;m just kidding
</p>
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		<title>by: enkidu</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-75173</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:26:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-75173</guid>
					<description>http://forumpolitics.com/pics/moran-sign.jpg

hey look lefty, you are in the news!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href='http://forumpolitics.com/pics/moran-sign.jpg' rel='nofollow'>http://forumpolitics.com/pics/moran-sign.jpg</a></p>
<p>hey look lefty, you are in the news!
</p>
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		<title>by: leftbehind</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-75172</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 20:59:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-75172</guid>
					<description>People get so degenerate they start spelling "moron" in ridiculous ways? hey - let's not get THAT started again...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People get so degenerate they start spelling &#8220;moron&#8221; in ridiculous ways? hey - let&#8217;s not get THAT started again&#8230;
</p>
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		<title>by: NorthernLite</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-75062</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:44:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-75062</guid>
					<description>That is a good write-up, Craig. I have to say I haven't been paying attention to it much and I was falling for the media reports that weren't giving me the whole picture.

I can't believe that with all the problems to discuss/investigate that this is at the top of the agenda. I can't do anything but shake my head.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is a good write-up, Craig. I have to say I haven&#8217;t been paying attention to it much and I was falling for the media reports that weren&#8217;t giving me the whole picture.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t believe that with all the problems to discuss/investigate that this is at the top of the agenda. I can&#8217;t do anything but shake my head.
</p>
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		<title>by: shcb</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-75053</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 13:30:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-75053</guid>
					<description>Knarly,

I agree with you, (this is getting scary). I guess that is why my libertarian side is such a small portion of my philosophy, but every now and then it rises to the surface like that little devil sitting on Pinto’s shoulder in Animal House looking at the passed out girl saying “… her”. I guess in all sports people are constantly pushing the limits of the rules, it is in their nature to push themselves to the limit so the rules are just another limit at some point. 

Craig, thanks for bringing this up, there are a lot of parallels in life to sports even for people how don’t play them anymore or who never played them. Knarly touched on the fact that in cases like steroids, honor and integrity often are the more important that trying to micromanage the sport (or congress) with rules.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Knarly,</p>
<p>I agree with you, (this is getting scary). I guess that is why my libertarian side is such a small portion of my philosophy, but every now and then it rises to the surface like that little devil sitting on Pinto’s shoulder in Animal House looking at the passed out girl saying “… her”. I guess in all sports people are constantly pushing the limits of the rules, it is in their nature to push themselves to the limit so the rules are just another limit at some point. </p>
<p>Craig, thanks for bringing this up, there are a lot of parallels in life to sports even for people how don’t play them anymore or who never played them. Knarly touched on the fact that in cases like steroids, honor and integrity often are the more important that trying to micromanage the sport (or congress) with rules.
</p>
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		<title>by: knarlyknight</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-75046</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 08:10:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-75046</guid>
					<description>Then, pretty soon people start getting so degenerate that they begin to make glaring spelling mistakes, such as spelling "immoral" in ridiculous ways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then, pretty soon people start getting so degenerate that they begin to make glaring spelling mistakes, such as spelling &#8220;immoral&#8221; in ridiculous ways.
</p>
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		<title>by: knarlyknight</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-75045</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 08:02:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-75045</guid>
					<description>jbc, I concur, except that there has been waaaay too much agreeing with shcb lately.  &lt;b&gt;I can fix that.&lt;/b&gt;

shcb, 

There, that's better: you gave me something to work with. 

First, I think Rush stole that quote from Mark Twain.

Second, you probably agree that the past has shown that allowing a little performance enhancing drug use in sports is impossible, because the extreme competition prompts each athlete to use a little more than the other guy.  

Finally, why should we care if pro athletes use dangerous performance enhancing drugs, perhaps it doesn't matter.  &lt;b&gt;But perhaps it is a HUGE issue that defines who we are as a civilization.&lt;/b&gt;  I'll get to that through the answer to your question.

You ask "What is the message to the 18 year old if these guys start dropping like flies at 32?"  I bet you thought the answer is that the message is: "steroid use is dumb", or that "there are serious choices and sacrifices to make in life and it takes dedication and commitment to get where you want to go."

I wish it were that simple.  This is another example of the big mistakes that we make when we assume that such questions can be adequately answered in such a black and white manner.  

I think the real answer(s) about what message is sent to kids depend on what 18 year old kid we are talking about.

If it's kid A who has tons of athletic talent and an average or sub average intellect without money or family connections, the message is that as an 18 year old you live in a mean, predatory society where you have a few choices to make: (1) Take the steroids and probably suffer early degenerative sicknesses and die early but you'll have a *chance* to compete with everyone else to play in the big leagues for big bucks and glory, or (2) Do not take the steroids and live long enough to eventually become a Wal Mart greater, cuz you sure ain't got much of a chance playing in the big leagues if you don't take the drugs that make you as competitive as the rest of the jocks, or (3) forget about sports and choose a different career such as flippin burgers or go join the army so maybe you can kill people and blow things up for real instead of on xBox.  

For Kid B with athletic and other talents who comes from a family where character and good morals are maintained, the message may be that professional sports is not a smart career choice because it conflicts with respecting ones self.  Hopefully that kid is not too discouraged and still finds a good path into the future, but it would probably have been better for all concerned if he had been striving to fulfill his dreams to play in the big leagues and learned some good life lessons about competitiveness and dedication along the way. 

For Kid C who has some athletic talent, intelligence, family connections and money, the message is that professional athletes are fools, simple pawns who have sold their souls for a chance in the spolight.  The obvious career path might be something like investing in a baseball team to determine if you like being the Boss and if you like "owning" other people.  If you do, then perhaps someday you will be president of the USA and you can make decisions to send hundreds of thousands of poor souls (mostly kids of type A who failed to make it into the big leagues) to kill and blow things up in foreign lands.

For Kid D, and all the other kids that come afterwards in the alphabet the message is that their Daddy (Kid A, B, or C) was playing in a rigged game and the example of his life shows that it's a nasty, unjust world therefore cheating and other imioral acts are not that big a deal relative to the big picture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jbc, I concur, except that there has been waaaay too much agreeing with shcb lately.  <b>I can fix that.</b></p>
<p>shcb, </p>
<p>There, that&#8217;s better: you gave me something to work with. </p>
<p>First, I think Rush stole that quote from Mark Twain.</p>
<p>Second, you probably agree that the past has shown that allowing a little performance enhancing drug use in sports is impossible, because the extreme competition prompts each athlete to use a little more than the other guy.  </p>
<p>Finally, why should we care if pro athletes use dangerous performance enhancing drugs, perhaps it doesn&#8217;t matter.  <b>But perhaps it is a HUGE issue that defines who we are as a civilization.</b>  I&#8217;ll get to that through the answer to your question.</p>
<p>You ask &#8220;What is the message to the 18 year old if these guys start dropping like flies at 32?&#8221;  I bet you thought the answer is that the message is: &#8220;steroid use is dumb&#8221;, or that &#8220;there are serious choices and sacrifices to make in life and it takes dedication and commitment to get where you want to go.&#8221;</p>
<p>I wish it were that simple.  This is another example of the big mistakes that we make when we assume that such questions can be adequately answered in such a black and white manner.  </p>
<p>I think the real answer(s) about what message is sent to kids depend on what 18 year old kid we are talking about.</p>
<p>If it&#8217;s kid A who has tons of athletic talent and an average or sub average intellect without money or family connections, the message is that as an 18 year old you live in a mean, predatory society where you have a few choices to make: (1) Take the steroids and probably suffer early degenerative sicknesses and die early but you&#8217;ll have a *chance* to compete with everyone else to play in the big leagues for big bucks and glory, or (2) Do not take the steroids and live long enough to eventually become a Wal Mart greater, cuz you sure ain&#8217;t got much of a chance playing in the big leagues if you don&#8217;t take the drugs that make you as competitive as the rest of the jocks, or (3) forget about sports and choose a different career such as flippin burgers or go join the army so maybe you can kill people and blow things up for real instead of on xBox.  </p>
<p>For Kid B with athletic and other talents who comes from a family where character and good morals are maintained, the message may be that professional sports is not a smart career choice because it conflicts with respecting ones self.  Hopefully that kid is not too discouraged and still finds a good path into the future, but it would probably have been better for all concerned if he had been striving to fulfill his dreams to play in the big leagues and learned some good life lessons about competitiveness and dedication along the way. </p>
<p>For Kid C who has some athletic talent, intelligence, family connections and money, the message is that professional athletes are fools, simple pawns who have sold their souls for a chance in the spolight.  The obvious career path might be something like investing in a baseball team to determine if you like being the Boss and if you like &#8220;owning&#8221; other people.  If you do, then perhaps someday you will be president of the USA and you can make decisions to send hundreds of thousands of poor souls (mostly kids of type A who failed to make it into the big leagues) to kill and blow things up in foreign lands.</p>
<p>For Kid D, and all the other kids that come afterwards in the alphabet the message is that their Daddy (Kid A, B, or C) was playing in a rigged game and the example of his life shows that it&#8217;s a nasty, unjust world therefore cheating and other imioral acts are not that big a deal relative to the big picture.
</p>
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		<title>by: jbc</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-75043</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 06:41:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-75043</guid>
					<description>Thanks for posting that, Craig. I could tell there were some prominent falsehoods there, but (for once) I have to agree with shcb, in the sense that I can't even remotely begin to care about the issue. At least with your posting, I can be happy that Lies.com has officially weighed in on the matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for posting that, Craig. I could tell there were some prominent falsehoods there, but (for once) I have to agree with shcb, in the sense that I can&#8217;t even remotely begin to care about the issue. At least with your posting, I can be happy that Lies.com has officially weighed in on the matter.
</p>
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		<title>by: shcb</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-75038</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 03:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-75038</guid>
					<description>Rush said once that when congress is screwing with this kind of thing at least they aren’t screwing with our lives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rush said once that when congress is screwing with this kind of thing at least they aren’t screwing with our lives.
</p>
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		<title>by: shcb</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-75037</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 03:15:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-75037</guid>
					<description>This is somewhere between an 8.8 to 9.3 on my don’t give a shit scale, but I have a question from my libertarian side (about 2.3 on my philosophy scale). Why do we care what these professional athletes pump into their bodies, I’m not talking about high school or college athletes, but isn’t it a wink and a nod that they don’t all do something slightly unethical with these performance enhancing drugs and such? If these guys started dropping like flies a 32 wouldn’t that be a message to an 18 year old?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is somewhere between an 8.8 to 9.3 on my don’t give a shit scale, but I have a question from my libertarian side (about 2.3 on my philosophy scale). Why do we care what these professional athletes pump into their bodies, I’m not talking about high school or college athletes, but isn’t it a wink and a nod that they don’t all do something slightly unethical with these performance enhancing drugs and such? If these guys started dropping like flies a 32 wouldn’t that be a message to an 18 year old?
</p>
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		<title>by: ymatt</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-75030</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 01:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-75030</guid>
					<description>Also, to use a quote I read elsewhere:

"Why don't we just waterboard Roger Clemens?"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, to use a quote I read elsewhere:</p>
<p>&#8220;Why don&#8217;t we just waterboard Roger Clemens?&#8221;
</p>
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		<title>by: ymatt</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-75029</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 01:08:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.lies.com/wp/2008/02/14/rocket-past-the-details/#comment-75029</guid>
					<description>You know, there are few things in the news that interest me less than this baseball nonsense that Congress is wasting its time on (time which, I might point out, Reid claims there's &lt;a href="http://www.davidswanson.org/?q=node/952" rel="nofollow"&gt;not enough of&lt;/a&gt; to spend on impeachment), but having been submitted to some CNN coverage of it and now reading your analysis, I can't believe how shallow the coverage is.  Well okay, I can believe it, but you'd think something as safely trivial as baseball would be open season for biting analysis.  Really pathetic all around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, there are few things in the news that interest me less than this baseball nonsense that Congress is wasting its time on (time which, I might point out, Reid claims there&#8217;s <a href="http://www.davidswanson.org/?q=node/952" rel="nofollow">not enough of</a> to spend on impeachment), but having been submitted to some CNN coverage of it and now reading your analysis, I can&#8217;t believe how shallow the coverage is.  Well okay, I can believe it, but you&#8217;d think something as safely trivial as baseball would be open season for biting analysis.  Really pathetic all around.
</p>
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