Greenwald on Levant on the Alberta Human Rights Commission’s Investigation of Suspected Thoughtcrime
Glenn Greenwald has some extremely apt things to say about Ezra Levant’s interrogation by the Alberta Human Rights Commission in response to Levant, publisher of a Canadian right-wing magazine, choosing to publish cartoons depicting Mohamed, and thereby eliciting complaints from an Islamic group’s imam: The Noxious Fruits of Hate Speech Laws. Among those apt things is his description of the above video as “nothing short of stomach-turning.” There’s also this:
For those unable to think past the (well-deserved) animosity one has for the specific targets in question here, all one needs to do instead is imagine these proceedings directed at opinions and groups that one likes. If Muslim groups can trigger government investigations due to commentary they find offensive, so, too, can conservative Christian or right-wing Jewish groups, or conservative or neoconservative groups, or any other political faction seeking to restrict and punish speech it dislikes.
January 13th, 2008 at 8:31 am
That clip had me cheering, was that real or a reenactment?
January 13th, 2008 at 11:36 am
I’m pretty sure it’s real. Levant has more details on his web site at http://ezralevant.com/2008/01/some-press-coverage.html.
January 14th, 2008 at 7:35 am
That guy totally rocks, and the Alberta Human Rights Commission can LMB. A comic regarding a religious figure should be far from a test of free speech/press. What a shame.
January 14th, 2008 at 9:41 am
Ladies and Gentlemen, you have just been introduced to Canada’s version of Pat Robertson, Al Sharpton, etc.
He’s a button pusher. While agree with him that he has his right to publish whatever he wants, keep in mind that he printed those cartoons after the Muslim furor had already erupted due to the Dansih publications.
This is clearly a fight he wanted to have.
January 14th, 2008 at 10:19 am
NL,
I don’t know if I agree with the Sharpton comparison totally, but I know what you’re saying. But what is wrong with pushing the terrorists buttons? That is one effective way of peacefully dealing with a bully.
January 14th, 2008 at 10:43 am
There you ago again, shcb. It wasn’t just terrorists who were offended by the cartoons; it was a large percentage of Muslims in general. The Islam religion prohibits such depictions of their Prophet. Whether we in West agree with it or not is irrelevant, that’s what their holy book says. Do you think anyone would really care if it only pissed off terrorists? Of course not.
I agree though, the Sharpton comparison was not a good one. Actually, what Ezra did was more in line with something Rush Limbaugh would do. And that is:
To purposely incite hatred, just because they can.
Stir the pot
Fan the flames
In the end though, it’s all about creating a controversy to increase the magazines readership. Publicity 101.
January 14th, 2008 at 11:37 am
Jesus Christ! You people are idiots. (Don’t Taz me, yMom!)
Sure, the Canadian hate speech laws are invasive, but they were instituted in the noble cause of fighting what was a growing neo-nazi movement.
They were never meant to apply to good people like pictured in the video, they were brought into force to apply to people like Ernst Zundel (a neo Nazi type who is labelled as a holocaust denier mostly because he claims the official tally of Jews killed by Hitler was something like 2 or 3 million rather than 6 million – & he was extradited and is now in a German prison for repeatedly questioning or denying those statistics and making other offensive comments.)
So there are a few minor kinks to work out, the laws serve a function (isn’t it the same function that resulted in Socrates being sentencd to death?) By the way, that was sarcasm as the “minor kinks” to work out are far larger than the “function’.
Bottom line is that if you think the Canadian hate laws are bad, you ain’t seen nothing yet.
Take a good hard look at the US bill HR1955; in a presentation to lawmakers The Wiesenthal Center listed Architects and Engineers for Truth as a website promoting hatred that could be shut down by the new law, it was listed right between two clearly Islamic Terrorist websites.
When you combine that Bill which allows dissenters to be labelled terrorists and combine it with the powers in the Patriot Act II, your claim of Americans having free speach will be a complete joke: you will have free speach to say anything in support of your leaders.
By the way, if you saw the Western Standard’s cartoons, they were not even funny.
NL, you hit the nails on the head with your comments.
January 14th, 2008 at 11:44 am
I’m just not that politically correct. I don’t mind pissing people off, especially when they are killing my folks, so until the vast majority of Arabs, Muslims, whatever decry the tactics of the radicals, I don’t mind antagonizing them. Of course they won’t because they fear for their lives from those radicals.
Actually I don’t think anyone has died from something Rush has said or done, can’t say the same about Sharpton.
January 14th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Purposefully pissing people off: kinda dickish but worthy of protection.
Anti-hate laws: pointless and destined for misapplication.
shcb: still missing the point in favor of parroting xenophobic paranoia and mindless partisanship.
January 14th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Matt,
I agree wholeheartedly with your first two points, and you must be right about the third because I don’t know what you’re talking about, there is no irrational fear if the threat is real. What am I missing?
January 14th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
I sure wish Canada and Europe would repeal those obnoxious anti-free speech laws so you can get on with the business of calling Levant an asshole.
As it is, in this situation he’s more of a hero. And deservedly so.
January 14th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
I can’t remember which way we count it. I measured 36% plausible.
January 14th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
shcb, you’re missing the bit about being more likely to slip and die in the shower than you are getting so much as a wedgie from your feared “arabs, muslims, whatever”.
January 14th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
NL, I didn’t realize that the guy is a pundit.
While I know nothing of his views or demeanor, I still support what he is doing. I don’t even care if he’s a Neo Nazi. In my opinion, all speech, no matter how unpopular, should be permitted. (Let’s stay away from the clear-and-present-danger argument, I think that the limits within the law are generally understood and do not apply here.)
January 14th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
ymatt: I don’t follow lies.com closely enough to follow…but damn that was funny.
January 14th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
Ymatt,
I don’t know about slipping in the shower but I did look up getting struck by lightning, and about 67 people get killed each year in this country that way. So in the last 6 years you are about 7 times more likely to be killed in this country by Islamofascists than Thor.
See, I’m not mindless, I can do simple math and everything.
January 15th, 2008 at 7:31 am
Are you saying that 469 Americans have died in each of the last 6 years from a terrorist attack? Where did these take place? What about the entire history of your country? Could it be that many more people have died from getting struck by lightning than by a terroist attack?
January 15th, 2008 at 8:17 am
just one attack in 2001. Of course a more important point is you can’t really do much about lightning, you can do something about terrorism.
January 15th, 2008 at 8:20 am
Also, that ratio would have been somewhat higher if the terrorists had had a nuke. By a factor of what, maybe 30?
January 15th, 2008 at 10:15 am
Yeah, and if I had a million dollars, I’d be rich. But I don’t. So I’m not.
January 15th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
shcb may have a point here. We should remember that 300,000 Americans died fighting Germany in WWII — that’s 5000 dead per year over the last 60 years. Clearly I’m much more likely to die at the hands of the Nazis than I am to be struck by lightning. In fact, given Germany’s demonstrated pattern of aggression, I think the best course may be preventative invasion with a coalition of the willing (the French will do).
January 15th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Well hell, the civil war killed more than that. Lock and load boys!
January 16th, 2008 at 10:31 am
Dead American counts, huh…
All participants in this discussion are now proud members of the official DHS watch-list. Unfortunately, there is no welcome packet — but make sure that you pack some extra lubricant the next time you want to fly on a commercial airliner.
January 16th, 2008 at 11:49 am
as long as the agent is female and cute, i got no problem with that, I’m thinking more Mary Ann than Ginger
January 17th, 2008 at 9:29 am
Congratulations America!
You have been added to Canada’s list of countries known for torture.
That’s right folks, you’re included with such esteem company as countries like Syria, Iran, Afghanistan, Israel and China.
You sure have come along way in these last eight years. Way to go!
January 17th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Dude, only rwnjs are OK with that.
Seriously.
The Joint Chiefs just recommended closing down gitmo.
Are we a nation of laws or… ?
January 19th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
So did the Joint Chiefs say what they were going to do with the terrorists?
January 19th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
Send them to John Edwards’ home in the America of his choice. He has plenty of room, and it would give him an opportunity to hear some real voices in his head. Are those pot-smoking chiefs Cherokee, Apache, or what?
January 20th, 2008 at 7:27 am
What worries me is these guys being brought to America and someone like Ramsey Clarke exploiting the case. Before you know it we will be paying these murderous slugs reparations
January 21st, 2008 at 10:05 am
As shcb and TV have little evidence or proof that gitmo inmates have done wrong, their comments attest to their willingness to paint all Muslims with the same brush – wherever convenient – and abandon any principles of law developed that civilized countries have developed over the centuries.
Many were “captured” after being fingered by warlords who collected a $10,000 bounty per head. Great way to settle old grudges, tell the Americans about that loser who dishonored your sister and he’s taken away forever and you have ten grand $$$. Not bad for ten minutes work.
So exactly how many are held in Gitmo (350, 400, or more?)
How long have they been there (4 or 5 years?)
How many have been released due to strong diplomatic efforts from other countries (eg. Canada, Britiain, etc.) and no credible evidence of any wriong doing? (Approx 5 after three years or so)
And how many have actually been tried? (2 or 3?)
How many have any real charges against them? (classified)
How many are being held based on initial heresay accusations and are being held due to what others there have been forced to say about them uunder torture? (classified)
How many have successfully committed suicide there? (2 or 3?)
How many have died during torture? (0? 1? or is that classified?)
How many have failed in their suicide attempts after losing all hope of ever getting a trial or ever getting out of gitmo hell (50? 100?)
How many have been turned into pathetic zombies by high stress mind clearing techniques like isolation for months on end in near total darkness with head banging rap music blasted into their cells 24/7 and cold water thrown on them if they sleep for more thean 15 minutes? (CLASSIFIED)
And shcb and TV’s comments are cheering this abhorrent abuse of human rights. They are the ones who aught to be in f*cking jail.
January 21st, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Is Canada willing to accept all of the GITMO prisoners, with an enforceable promise that none will ever (a) cross the border into our own evil country or (b) join with groups that would kill any of our evil citizens? If you’re willing to accept them into your home or community, where you can personally nurture their wounds and pat their little heads, you’ll hear no objection from me.
January 21st, 2008 at 12:23 pm
Perhaps all that they want is to go back to their families. They have probably had more than enough of the western world.
January 21st, 2008 at 2:04 pm
how about trying them?
you know, how we USED to be a nation of laws, before stupid king dumbya farked it all up…
Currently the Bill of Rights has just two rights left: the right to bear arms and not having to quarter British soldiers – well, I am sure Cheney will get us to house a few Halliburton mercs when martial law is declared, so we are down to just a single right.
And if they are found innocent? You are damn right we should be paying reparations to innocent men, women and children imprisoned for years. And if they are found guilty? I don’t oppose the death penalty… hang em high. Just stop the torturing to get ‘confessions’ and start enforcing the laws again.
We’ll have to wait for President Obama to shut down that stain on America’s honor (what is left of it after morans have screwed the pooch for 8 long years).
January 21st, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Hmmm, maybe there’s more left than you can realize or appreciate, Inkydude – You don’t seem to be restricted in exercising your right to pound out partisan bullshit cliches, nor would I want to deny you that right.
January 21st, 2008 at 2:57 pm
focus o angry rwnj: the issue is what to do with Gitmo
January 21st, 2008 at 4:43 pm
Actually, lwdh, the issue was the Greenwald on Levant video, with GITMO not mentioned until you brought it up late in the string. Focus o hip dude.
January 21st, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Sorry folks, but I made a mistake. Rather than:
“And shcb and TV’s comments are cheering this abhorrent abuse of human rights. They are the ones who aught to be in f*cking jail.”
I should have written:
And shcb and TV’s comments are cheering for this abhorrent abuse of human rights. They are the ones who ought to be in f*cking jail.
January 21st, 2008 at 8:27 pm
Ah, now we’re properly convicted. Length of sentence? :-)
January 22nd, 2008 at 5:55 am
As close as I can see we have about 275 prisoners left in Gitmo and have released or transferred 341 give or take. We have released a small number, maybe 10 or 20 outright, the rest were sent to various countries around the world. Britain and Saudi Arabia have received the most, but so have Sudan, Afghanistan and Mauritania. What happened to these prisoners, I don’t know. The 7 that were sent to France were prosecuted as well as the Australian national sent to his own country.
So what did they do when they returned to the bosom of their families? One of them killed a judge leaving a Mosque in Afghanistan. Such a reverence for the religion of peace. Abdullah Mehsud oversaw the kidnapping of two Chinese engineers, one of them was killed. Mauli Addul Ghaffar was held for eight months in 2001- 2002. He was killed in Afghanistan last year leading the southern province Taliban. The guy who killed the judge, what did he do to secure his release? He signed a paper saying he had renounced terrorism.
January 22nd, 2008 at 7:13 am
schb, in response you can expect some variation of “but these guys were just good, wholesome family men, faithful members of the Islamofascist Mens Glee Club, until their experience at the Gitmo torture facility.”
January 22nd, 2008 at 9:18 am
I know, they are twisting themselves in knots as we speak. What I found interesting was there seems to be a pretty consistant turnover at Gitmo. To hear the libs describe it once you are there you will be there forever. I’m sure there are some of the real hard cases that fit that description, but we seem to be returning many of them to there homes for an uncertain fate. Some are probably executed and some are probably let loose for a bribe or favor or two. Only to return to the battlefield. As has always been the case with POW’s
January 22nd, 2008 at 9:23 am
so let me see, we have had how many lawful prosecutions? 2, 3? out of 700 or so (I won’t speculate how many we killed or disappeared in the black sites in eastern europe, egypt or syria)
so shrubco let go almost 350 bad guys and you make examples of say 3 of these prisoners who went all rwnj by being angry about being imprisoned and tortured? So about 1% of those released (without trial – heck of a job shruby!) then go on (or back to) being ienjs? wow that is a pretty low recidivism rate!
I wonder what rwnjs reaction might be if they were to be imprisoned in Damascus for a few years, tortured (oops, waterboarded, it’s just like swimming!) then released without apology, recompense or – dare I say it – Justice? I wonder what percentage of rwnjs would start shooting the place up? I bet it would be way more than 1%.
Try them in a court of Law and convict them if you can. If you can’t then ship em back to their home lands and see if they can make anything stick. It is called the Law. We used to be a nation of Laws.
364 to go
January 22nd, 2008 at 10:41 am
Yep, they should be sent back to the Taliban or the plush cave headquarters of al Qaeda so we can see if anything sticks, with recompense from US taxpayers for interrupting their choir boy rehearsals. Good thinking there, kemo sabe. I wonder if the obsessed anti-shruby lwsnj crowd would cease their lunacy if that occurred. Perhaps adoption laws are applicable here – go for it.
January 22nd, 2008 at 11:40 am
So what would we charge them with? As far as I can tell they haven’t broken any US law unless they were tied to 911 somehow. They aren’t covered by the Geneva conventions to much of a degree. There are some clauses that protect asymmetrical combatants but only if those combatants abide by the rules, which these guys don’t. so help me out Inky, what would you charge them with? Because of their actions they have virtually no rights nor should they be afforded any. They are simply POW’s without a country, mercenaries.
Now to a practical matter, I don’t understand this whole “they were just sitting at the coffee shop when the Americans broke the door down and hauled them off to Cuba” mentality. In a war zone where the other side doesn’t play by the rules you are going to error on the side of caution, unless you’re Andy Olmsted, and then your charity will make you dead, but most soldiers will eliminate as much of the threat as possible. If a burst of fire is directed at you and there are six guys in that general direction, you are going to take them all in until you can figure which one fired on you. So I can see someone spending a few days in the Green Zone for doing nothing but being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
But these guys at Gitmo are being flown half way around the world in a C17, the cost of that has to make that $14k first class flight to Hong Kong seem like bus fare. I’m thinking these guys have been vetted pretty well before they get on that plane.
January 22nd, 2008 at 12:12 pm
shcb,
You’ve done a good job of describing the difficulty presented when a Nincompoop in Chief (NiC) declares war on a verb (?) – ie. “terrorism”.
The situation was obfuscated by this faulty declaration of war, in what appears to be an intentional obfuscation, precisely to circumvent perfectly legitimate national and international laws, you know, the ones that were derived from Moses, starting with “Thou Shalt Not Kill.”
As for them being guilty or at special risk because they choose to be in a “war zone”, well that’s pretty big BS even for you when you consider whole countries encompassing tens of millions of people became trapped in a war zone when the Afghanistan invaded and when American, British, Australians, and a coalition-of-the-unwilling-to-object invaded Iraq.
Pretty amazing the numbers that were released from Gitmo (after years of confinement in highly abusive conditions) thanks for digging that up. Amazing too the incredibly low recidivism rate as Enk points out, maybe mmost of those people were guilty of nothing more than being present in a “war zone” encompassing a significant chunk of the middle east and having the wrong color skin.
January 22nd, 2008 at 1:59 pm
You didn’t read close enough, of the 10 or 20 we have released, seven we know of have returned to terrorism, I didn’t dig deep enough to know what the rest of them we have turned over to other countries are doing now, most are probably in prison in those countries. There is nothing wrong with declaring war on a verb, we did it with the Pirates of the Barbary Coast, also Islamic terrorists, during the Madison administration, so we have a long history with these folks.
Let me be more specific, they chose to fight a war without abiding by the Geneva conventions, and they chose to fight it in such a way to put civilian populations between us and them. This, by the way, is where they differ from a true guerilla fighter and turn into a terrorist. You have the order of who invaded who when and why all mixed up, but that is the only way your scenarios work, so I understand.
January 22nd, 2008 at 3:05 pm
So roughly 700 inmates (I am including the 10% of so that the we hide from the red cross and the rest of the world)… you say we released approx 350, and 7 go all rwnj on us when we return them to the wild… that is 2% instead of less than 1%
your point is?
So if the enemy doesn’t adhere to the Geneva Conventions, we should abandon them as well? We didn’t beat the (mid 20th century right wing central european nut jobs)s by becoming them.
Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
Iraq had no WMDs.
Iraq has plenty of oil.
Iran has plenty of oil.
Osama bin Forgotten is still alive in case you were wondering.
getting the picture yet?
364 to go
January 22nd, 2008 at 3:32 pm
I see. You prefer to distance yourself from analysis of the 341 prisoners or so that you said were released or transferred and instead narrow your attention to the 10 or 20 released outright, to imply a recidivism rate of at least 7 out of 10 or 20. Well, that fits better with normal US prison recidivism rates, but it does not address how many of the 341 were subsequently released outright by their country of origin (many of the 80 or so released to Saudi Arabia were probably freed, but I may be wrong.) More important though, it does nothing to provide justification for your country’s abhorrent perversions of justice.
You cite the “Pirates of the Barbary Coast” (that was with Johny Depp right?) and President Madison? My god man get a grip, that was even before the old League of Nations for Christ sakes. You using that to claim there is nothing wrong with declaring war on a verb is preposterous – especially considering all the obfuscations and perversions of international justice that such an Act creates in the minds of your leaders –so much so that to any rational outside observer, and many inside observers for that matter, what you now have is a nation being led by (apparent) war criminals. Refer to H Res 333, here:
http://kucinich.house.gov/SpotlightIssues/documents.htm
By the way, I hear there is a band of terrorists holed up next to a Denver Presbyterian church, better call in an airstrike to flatten the area, according to you that works great in Iraq so you might as well apply it in the war zone of your own backyard. Your support for that insanity and for the human rights crimes at Gitmo on so many potentially completely innocent people should put you in f*cking jail.
January 22nd, 2008 at 3:45 pm
We released or transfered 350, I can only count 10 or 20 that we released outright, sent them home, dropped them off at the airport and waved goodbye, that included 3 teenagers and one 88 year old man. I don’t know what happened to the 330 to 340 we have transfered to other countries. I’m hoping most are in jail or have been executed there, but I don’t know. Does that make sense?
The answer to your Geneva Conventions question is we have the right under the Geneva Conventions to simply execute these prisoners, my personal choice. But yes we have the right to abandon them in those cases if we choose, otherwise what is the point of having them, an agreement is only good if both parties stick to it.
25 days left (Daytona 500)
January 22nd, 2008 at 7:25 pm
The Barbary Pirates are actually a good parallel to today, the pirates were Islamic fanatics that demanded tribute to all non Islamic ships, they killed or kidnapped all who refused to convert or bow to their wishes. America was denied a request by its European allies to help with the problem and had to go it alone. The Europeans said that it wasn’t that big a deal, so they kill a few people and sink a few ships and every now and then you have to pay a $60,000 ransom to get a ship and crew back, it’s not the end of civilization, we are rich countries, we can afford it. Thomas Jefferson said that if we just paid them a million dollars they would leave us alone, Congress offered $80k, with no other choice TJ built 6 ships, the beginning of the US Navy, all to fight Islamic terrorists. He piddled around abiding by the rules, the enemy was a group with no national allegiance, although it was widely known they were being sponsored by several Islamic nation states, so he protected ships as best he could in international waters. The terrorists stopped their attacks for a while, but when a new president was elected they tested him, Madison took off the gloves and not only attacked them on the high seas, but sent the Marines to invade sovereign countries that supported the Islamofascists. They crumbled, never to attack Americans again, Europeans, however, paid tribute to the scum for almost two generations.
January 23rd, 2008 at 10:06 am
interesting (but extremely skewed) view of history, dear rwnj
try reading the entire wikipedia article on “Barbary Pirates”
when seen thru the rwnj hate colored glasses, the support of european powers for predatory ‘pirate states’ (recall how the British also used pirates or in rwnj parlance “terrrrists!” extensively) is all about terrrrr terrrrr terrrrr and how evil them mooslmen are.
The only reason (other than the Moorish conquest of most of the Mediterranean) these pirates preyed on shipping for centuries was because the European powers used them as tools against other European powers. Slavery is and was evil, but getting your dander up about evil mooslims from almost 200 years ago seems a bit of stretch, even for dim bulb rwnjs.
I won’t catalog the evils that men do under the auspices of religion (for the evils are too great and too many, and the religions too wild and wacky). Suffice to say there is much evil and stupidity in the world. Which is how we get Rethugglicanism.
You might also note that Morocco was the first nation to recognize the USofA as a nation. And that the Treaty of Tripoli specifically states that America is not a Christian Nation: we tolerate all faiths and (plainly ridiculous imho) religions. Just abide by the secular government’s Laws and everyone should get along fine (barring the Preston Brooks/rwnj crowd of morans).
Real history isn’t quite so black and white as dear deluded rwnjs might have you Believe.
January 23rd, 2008 at 10:09 am
Uh huh.
You might also want to add a little something about how the US Cavalry did such a fantastic job stamping out Navaho-fascist terrorists during the Indian wars.
January 23rd, 2008 at 10:58 am
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080123/ap_on_go_pr_wh/misinformation_study
two non-partisan, not for profit groups (ya see there’s the problem, if they was for profit, us Rethuggles woulda bought em off, he he!) have concluded a study that the shrubco regime lied something like 935 times about Iraq in the two years after 9/11.
When you consider that shrubby aint very good at guvernatin… spent near half his time clearin brush at his fake ranch in Dumfukistan… sos he maybe is on the job screwin things up mb half the time… that is about 3 lies a day (I figure 2 lies a day for Cheney and 1 fer the pretzelnitwit).
363 to go
ps – now now knarlesbiggee, it isn’t as if the british and french didn’t do pretty much the same thing to the indians in Cañada (tho most of the killing was via disease)
January 23rd, 2008 at 11:37 am
Don’t let Enkidu’s lousy attempts at written Ebonics fool you – he’s essentially correct in everything he’s saying here.
January 23rd, 2008 at 11:46 am
I was going for more of a pretzlnitwit twang, but everything is black and white to you lefty ;-)
January 23rd, 2008 at 12:20 pm
For sizzle, my nizzle.
“Pretzelnitwit” – that’s good. It’s not everyone that can parody George Bush while also appearing to be as challenged in his use of language as George Bush is. And I thought Ed “Kookie” Burns could turn a phrase.
January 23rd, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Enki, haven’t you been listening, shcb has explained that those were not lies, they were innocent statements based on bad information.
Millions of people around the world with more than half a brain in their heads knew that the intelligence (or lack thereof) indicating that there were WMD in Iraq was nonsense.
So what if these same people knew that the information indicating that the only WMD’s in Iraq would be forgotten and out-of-date (i.e. decrepid and useless) barrels of poison gas that the Americans supplied Saddam with to use on the Iranians and rebellious Kurds during the Iran/Iraq war?
The fact is that the administration wanted to believe in Iraqi WMD, and their advisors said that that since America is “an Empire now, we can create our own reality” so they had every right to convince themselves of that stupid idea and attempt to fool everyone else too. There are a lot of fools to fool.
Some people were not fooled, and these people were ridiculed and publicly lambasted for the audacity of being brave enough Americans to abuse their rights to free speech in order to oppose the war rhetoric (i.e. the criminal rhetoric):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMStCHtUNeY
In any event, that is all behind us now. We need to stop your bickering and be a realist, there is a war (on a verb) to be won and they say it will not end in our lifetime. So it does no good to complain about who started it or why.
You should support the lying bastards who got you into the messopatamia. I’m sure they have learned their lesson and are telling the truth to you now.
Or maybe you’d prefer this approach?:
http://www.wexlerwantshearings.com/
January 23rd, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Oops, I posted the wrong link. Here’s the one showing what it is like for a person who tries to speak the truth (even when presenting his message as a group of distingushed documentarians together in solidarity) to people who believe in lies:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxoFJpJ3_fM
January 23rd, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Enky was listening, he was just jimberjawed by flopper rejuiceniks down on th’ farm.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:06 pm
hey lefty, perhaps you have forgotten this in your constant wanking about glorious misleader, but he nearly choked to death on a pretzel. Got those bruises on his face by falling down (drunk).
So it is a play on president + pretzel + nitwit
You may now return to your usual wankery
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Thanks Inky, I forgot about the parallel of present and 19th century events, you are talking about the similarity of the Europeans using the pirates for their own profit and the French and to a lesser degree the Russians and Germans circumventing the Oil for Food Program for their own profits, correct? Good point and good catch.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Yes, I understood the Pretzle/President thing, but it’s still not particularly clever. I understand what Billy in the Family Circus is saying when he wants to use the “alligator” instead of the stairs, but it’s still not funny.
Years ago when you and I started sparring with one another on this blog, I thought your “rethuglicans” and “goopers” singsong was an entertaining homage to the great Doodles Weaver, who was an inspiration to us all, I’m sure. But now it’s 2008 and it’s an old schtick. You’ve become like George Carlin might have had he done nothing but “The Hippie Dippie Weatherman” for the past forty-two years. It’s really time to move on.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Past time to move on.
January 24th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
I’ll keep using Rethugglican™®© as long as you losers continue down the path to oblivion and irrelevance. As long as mocking your bs is still fun and funny (which it obviously isn’t… to you).
I don’t recall raising such a fuss about a humorous pet name when you rwnjs were all “traitor” “libtard” “dhimmicrat” “seditious” etc etc etc. mb you were out polishing the knobs on your tank or something?
And wtf does this mean?
Looks like you forgot some of your meds. I’ll email your doc and have the guys in the white jackets bring you in again. You recall what happened last time… or maybe not.
Anyone?
January 24th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
Now see, that’s what I’m talking about. What could have been a really snappy retort comes off like one of those moments on the old Dobie Gillis show when Maynard Krebs tries to say something profound or intelligent, but he says it in beat slang and everybody laughs because, well…Maynard’s just some dumb beatnik, after all.
January 25th, 2008 at 6:00 am
…and, for the record, I’ve never been a fan of cutseypoo name-calling by either side. All that “libtard” crap is pretty childish, and the “dhimmicrat” nonsense is beneath contempt. Still, Inky, if there are kids at your school who hurt your feelings with such name calling, you really need to talk to your teacher, or another adult. Find someone you trust and go and tell them what is happening to you. Teachers, principals, parents, and lunchroom helpers at school can all help to stop name calling and bullying. This is not tattling on someone who has done something small — bullying is wrong and it helps if everyone who gets bullied or sees someone being bullied speaks up.
January 25th, 2008 at 10:09 am
so THAT’S what “jimberjawed by flopper rejuiceniks” means!
thx!
January 25th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
No. “Jimberjawed by flopper rejuiceniks down on th’ farm,” obviously doesn’t mean shit – although the semantic references should be obvious. When I wrote it I was mocking you by “appropriating” your prose style, much in the manner you have “appropriated” Pebbles Flintstone’s prose style for your own postings. It’s really shocking that I should have to explain this to you.