Zogby Poll of US Troops
Here was my favorite quote from the recent Zogby poll of US troops in Iraq:
While 85% said the U.S. mission is mainly “to retaliate for Saddam’s role in the 9-11 attacks,” 77% said they also believe the main or a major reason for the war was “to stop Saddam from protecting al Qaeda in Iraq.”
I realize polls are ridiculous, generally, but this one certainly seems to speak volumes about the view from the trenches.
March 3rd, 2006 at 8:16 am
welcome back jbc – that commute must be a biotch
you missed February man!
more scandals
more lies
more incompetence
plus Dead-eye Dick Cheney shot a man in the face!
hey btw how are preznit dumbya’s approval ratings?
March 6th, 2006 at 7:03 am
This poll is downright scary. I mean, it’s one thing for passive citizens to still think there is/was a link between Saddam and Al Qaeda, but for an overwhelming majority of troops on the ground to still think that is just plain sad.
I can just imagine the brainwashing that must go on in boot camp.
There sure are goona be a lot of pissed off soldiers when they finally realize they were “dooped” by the world’s most dangerous man.
March 9th, 2006 at 6:45 am
I really don’t think that there’s much brainwashing going on in boot camp. My friends that served seem to know what the score is, and they didn’t mention any brainwashing activity.
In any case, I’m still pretty surprised that our opporitunistic administration didn’t latch onto the fact that Saddam Hussein did support terrorism, just not Al Qaeda. Remember that he offered stipends to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers who attacked Isreal.
It’s funny that the war in Iraq began years ago, and we still don’t know for sure why we are there.
March 9th, 2006 at 7:33 pm
The Mystery Pollster has a good series of posts on the relative soundness of the polling process done in this particular poll. Not to mention the fact that an unnamed wealthy anti-war activist bankrolled the poll.
The blog does a good job of sticking to facts, as they are known, and not damming the results as a whole.
One quote:
The toughest question here is whether it is appropriate for news organizations to report on a survey with partisan sponsorship that requires readers and viewers to place an unusual degree of trust in unspecified methods and procedures. I will admit I do not have a good answer for that one — different news organizations will apply different standards — but big “grains of salt” are certainly in order.
March 10th, 2006 at 11:38 am
spoken like a true 34 percenter Craig
or is that a 20 percenter-flat-earth-the-sun-goes-around-the-earth sentiment?
What I find amazing is the “85% who believe the Iraq war is to retaliate for Saddam’s role in 9/11” and “77% to stop Saddam from protecting Al Qaeda in Iraq”
I realize that our gov spends billions to ‘catapult the propaganda’ but sweet jc don’t the troops get the word that the 9/11 commission found no link between Saddam and 9/11? The answer is no, they are fed whatever crap Rove and the neocon criminals decree as this month’s talking points.
“Asked why they think some Americans favor rapid U.S. troop withdrawal from Iraq, 37% of troops serving there said those Americans are unpatriotic”
So close to the 34% hard core wingnut that I am not surprised… btw tightyrightys this country was founded on dissent. Or don’t you remember how you hounded preznit bubba? nah that was patriotic try partisan.
impeachment would be too good
March 10th, 2006 at 2:57 pm
ooooookay then, enkidu. I’m going to sloooooowly back away from the keyboard now. I’ll try to be careful to not make any sudden moves.
You have a nice day now….
March 10th, 2006 at 4:02 pm
yeah… right… whatever…
You can’t speak to why our troops believe things that simply have no basis in fact… funny, I think you might have more to say if the shoe were on the other foot. Our troops and citizens have been fed a steady diet of federally funded propaganda about how swell shrubco is doing at: (pick your disaster)
By every single measure (except perhaps destroying Democrats?) dumbya and co have been a colossal failure.
March 15th, 2006 at 6:07 am
Enkidu – I can’t believe you didn’t get that job as a speech writer for Jello Biafra. You were clearly the man for the task.
March 15th, 2006 at 7:44 am
why is it that when anyone left of the hitler youth states a fact (say… that Saddam had no connection to 9/11. or that there were no WMDs… or aWol is a moron) that person is crazy! angry! psycho!
maybe if I just used the debate techniques of the rightwingnuts?
you ÜberPatriots do use such polite language and formal manners that I am humbled (/sarcasm)
SGT. MARINE Says:
July 21st, 2004 at 9:18 pm
Dear Fucken-Idiot JBC….You are another moron in this great nation.
I would like to see Your mother, and the rest of Your family get gang-raped like a bunch of bitches. Then cut up to pieces and left to dry out so we Marines can have some fucken jerky from scumbags like You and maybe some book-covers and lamp-shades from Your skins =) Also for You we would have a special moment…..chopping You to little pieces and leaving Your on the street for those ragheads to ponder upon =)
March 15th, 2006 at 7:49 am
I don’t have much trouble with your facts or assertions, just your habit of consulting Cannibal Corpse lyric sheets when constructing your prose. Either you’re really George Fisher or you’re waaay overdoing it.
March 15th, 2006 at 10:00 am
riiiiiiight
Pointing out that our folks in harms way are being fed blatant lies to the extent that they believe nonsensical things like Saddam perp’d 9/11
Can you please explain how that relates in any way to some thrash metal horror band that I have never heard of? I am ‘overdoing it’ by actually criticising Glorious Leader? Perhaps you never read American History and don’t know that we rebelled against the last crazy king George. We are a nation of rebels, of dissenters, of free thinkers. Too bad so many people seem to prefer the thinking of SGT MARINE rather than the thinking of Washington, Paine, Jefferson, Lincoln, King and Carter.
I put that last one in there so you can fly off the handle to every greater heights of wingnuttery. Enjoy!
March 15th, 2006 at 10:16 am
I think enkidu is just passionate about the direction our country is heading in.
I know it hurts people on the right to constantly see their leader for dumbass he really is, especially since his own “base” is starting to finally see through all the bs too. But that’s what he is, a pure 100% fuck-up. On pretty much every issue he has handled. Every issue.
It’s not enkidu’s fault.
March 15th, 2006 at 12:24 pm
Treehugger – Please, don’t construe my comments concerning Enkidu’s prose style as any defense of G. W. Bush. That’s hardly the point. I’m merely flabbergasted by the emotional overdrive of his writing. “Passionate” hardly covers it.
Enkidu – My comparisons between your posts and the lyrical content of Cannibal Corpse songs is not so much a comment on what you have to say as how you choose to say it. The extreme, violent metaphors of your prose, your persistant fascination with nazism, hatred and genocide, your demonization of those who disagree with you, have their obvious connection with death metal. It’s hard for me to believe that anyone without at least a passing familiarity with “Fucked With A Knife” could bend a phrase in quite the fashion you do.
I mean all of this in the most positive light – I’ve become a huge fan, and hope to spur you to even greater heights in the near future. You make that guy in Pig Destroyer sound like a pansy.
March 15th, 2006 at 12:52 pm
o goodness me o my!
have I given offense with my little postings?
my good gracious, I do so hope I haven’t hurt the delicate feelings of Mr. LoserBehind or Mr. Macho SGT MARINE
Where is the violence in my postings? I am not fascinated with nazism/bushism: I am disgusted with the increasing similarities between these two horrific forces for evil and woe. Can you honestly say my postings are even in the same county of craziness that SGT MARINE’s came from?
I have no idea why you bring death metal into it as I have never heard of the songs/bands/drivel you seem to think is so obvious a connection. Maybe if you listened to less thrash metal and tried talking to the point at hand? Our troops believe Saddam perp’d 9/11. You can’t even respond to this in a rational manner. it would be nice to see you try tho…
Emotional overdrive? Whatever you say doc.
March 15th, 2006 at 1:48 pm
The poll is pretty typical of the confusion that has been fostered by both sides in the debate over the War in Iraq. The troops have been provided a rational for what many of them wish to believe and a lot of them have run with that. I think in this we all have a lot in common with them, as that seems to be a defense mechanism we Americans have almost uniformly employed, to some extent or another, since 911 (at least.)
Now back to the good stuff:
Not obsessed with nazism? Then how come, both times I’ve disagreed with you, you’ve either called me a hitler youth or, as you did in a previous post some moons ago, gone off on some wierd tangent about your Republican dad and his supposed “genocidal bigotry?” As soon as you get excited, you go off on all this oddball stuff about skin lampshades. Where does that come from, exactly? If you don’t have a fascination with nazism, why do you keep bringing it up? It is not possible to disagree with someone without invoking spectres of holocaust? It really has about as much to do with any disagreement you I might have as Cannibal Corpse does.
Where’s the violence in your postings? Well, so far, just today, we’ve raped JBC and his family and made lampshades and book jackets out of human flesh. Last time you and I exchanged pleasantries, your dad and his “republican friends” were embarking on a campaign of “genocidal bigotry” and I was, you had decided, waiting for my chance to hit some Chinese guy with a tank. “Grand Theft Auto: Vice City,” or Enkidu’s postings?
I sense a fascinating inner landscape I can’t wait to hear explored in greater detail.
Also, you really should give thrash metal a break. If you actually listened to some of it (I’d recommend Slayer’s “Reign In Blood” as a good starting point,) you ‘d find its crankyness, pathological obtuseness, substitution of emotional confrontation over intellectual clarity and FASCINATION WITH NAZISM AND THE HOLOCAUST inspirational.
March 15th, 2006 at 5:19 pm
hey left behind, maybe you need to look more carefully at SGT MARINE’s words. Those are not mine. Those are the words I found when I searched lies.com for your handle. And you guys say we liberals and progressives are full of hate. sheesh
it is called reading comprehension
please try it rather than the narrow partisan ‘thinking’
As to all that other stuff, my dad is (regretably) bigoted towards people of color. I doubt I ever said he was genocidal. I do see many posts on right wing web sites that are indeed full of genocidal hatred and lust for blood (maybe its the thrash metal?) It is a valid point to ask why so many right wingnuts are full of really horrible emotions and whatnot.
And I do indeed stand by my assessment of you as fully capable of grinding over liberals in your tank.
The larger question is why engage in this pissing match with a wingnut at all? I think the answer is, if we (centrists, dems, libs, progs, normal people etc) do nothing to expose the lies (see URL above) of the creeps you helped put in power, then we are complicit in thier crimes.
There comes a time when silence is not an option. This is such a time.
March 15th, 2006 at 6:13 pm
The words you found when searching for my handle? I can’t wait to hear what you think you’re talking about, or see specific examples of my hate speech. Most of my time here has been spent in either dumb non-sequiters regarding the death of Paul McCartney or in bending you out of shape with babble about Cannibal Corpse. I doubt much of my involvement here is of enough actual content to be very hateful. Also, for the record, I would never go as far as to say that liberal or progressive people, as a group are full of hate. I’ve only said that a) you, individually, write like a lyricist for a death metal band (which is to say you are long on invective and short on subtlety, careful consideration of language or tact) and that b) you, individually, are too much fun to pick on and pull off topic for the good of the arguments you try to make.
Why engage in a pissing contest with a wingnut at all? Well, you’ve been at it since 7:44 AM, by the site clock, so you tell me. I’m just in it because I’m bored, you’re an easy target, and my hateful, genocidal friends and I think it’s funny.
March 15th, 2006 at 6:37 pm
Also, for the record, SGT MARINE is a moron, but he wasn’t part of the present conversation until you introduced him in your post. He had nothing to do with anything Craig and I were saying, but was inserted by you because going off all righteous about his buffoonery was so much more Cannibal Corpse than conducting a civil conversation with Craig or myself on the subject at hand. I guess I wasn’t supposed to comprehend that, but this reading thing has become full of all sorts of subtle nuances.
March 16th, 2006 at 8:55 am
my apologies for invoking godwins law
a better turn of a phrase would be “anyone left of Joe McCarthy”
there you go
boo hoo for you Mr. Glass-jawed-rightwingnut
whatever
The whole point of sgt. marine’s quote is that you folks are full of anger and hate etc etc. I just don’t see libs/lefties/progs/normal folks going on any site and growling about rape, murder and cannibalism of their fellow Americans who disagree with their partisanship.
Can you possibly address the point of jbc’s post? or mine? that the troops think Saddam perp’d 9/11 is a triumph of propaganda and lies.
our tax dollars at work
Perhaps my purple prose will remind you of some other non sequitor.
March 16th, 2006 at 10:05 am
I already addressed what I thought to be JBC’s point, or at least the point of the poll way back four or five posts ago. As for your point, I think I spent most of the day yesterday outlining it for you. The point of the Sgt. Marine quote has already been established as well.
I like your point about normal folks not bringing up “rape, murder and cannibalism” when they’re disagreed with. It shows you’ve been reading my posts carefully, and might understand part of what I’m trying to tell you.
Anger? No thanks, it spoils the fun of the game if you take it too seriously. Hate? You might not understand what I’m telling you now, but the opposite of love is not hate, its indifference. Your mother and I are only hard on you because we love you very much.
March 16th, 2006 at 10:16 am
And if I even had a tank, it would have big flower on the side of it and all the chinese kids could pile inside for ice cream and tofu.
March 17th, 2006 at 8:18 am
…and while all this goes on, Iraq spirals into a civil war.
Mission Accomplished.
March 17th, 2006 at 9:24 am
Enkidu, I’ve gotta call you our on the above. The whole ‘you folks are full of hate’ thing is tired bullshit. I don’t think that either of our major political poles has a monopoly for intolerance for other ideas. I think that hostory has shown that those of both far left and far right ideals are capable of intolerance to a level of mass murder.
Honestly, that seems like an exasperated knock, which doesn’t mean anything, and is an argument which will never go anywhere. You may as well say something like “you disagree? Well yo mamma!”, because it’s equally constructive.
The point isn’t to tear into you, or point that everyone is an asshole just for choosing this side or that one. The point is that assholes come from all walks of life, all races, religions, and all political perspectives. Regardless of his political views, SGT MARINE is an asshole. He physically threatened JBC simply for speaking his mind, and IMO that level of intolerance qualifies him as a card-carrying member of the asshole club. It should not reflect on everyone who shares his political perspective.
Not like I don’t enjoy these flamewars, it appeals to the antagonistic asshole in me. However, this part of your commentary really struck me as nonsensical. Now go forth and flame on, burninating the countryside!
March 17th, 2006 at 10:50 am
I searched lies.com using “left behind” as my search input
sgt marine’s quote came up in the first page iirc
it is relevant in that the right wing of the blogosphere is far and away more full of this sort of pathology than the left. Sorry to point out that I am not full of hate (or crazy or whatever), and many on the other side are.
Maybe you folks know all the good Republicans and rightwing types, but my experience is just shy of universally negative. Can you imagine anyone left of Rush Limaugh writing that sgt nutcase stuff on powerline? lgf? expose the left? nro?
Sorry, but I am not buying into that whole “lets be all whimpy and spineless and keep the gloves on and ignore the vitriol spewing from the right so we can get elected” The right has had the gloves off for a long long while. Stop bringing butter knives to a gun fight folks. Stand up. Call em on the bullshit. Call em on the lies. The corruption. The hate. The greed. The insanity.
Unless of course you are part of the 33%er club (or the 20% of Uhmerkins who think the sun goes around the earth), in which case any opposition is treason. Any strong talk is bush-hater lunacy. Any criticism is crazy.
March 17th, 2006 at 11:19 am
Not to get the row started again, Enkidu, but if you deal with Republicans and right wing types in real life the way you dealt with Craig here, it’s no wonder your experiences with them are uniformly negative. There is such a thing as a self fulfilling prophesy, especially with interpersonal relationships. Think about our buddy Sgt. Marine. He probably finds his relations with liberals and progressives uniformly negative because, if he deals with those around him the way he approached JBC, he’s an asshole to anyone he perceives as liberal, and they naturally refuse to take it. It’s not “whimpy” to deal with people on an individual basis and give people the benefit of the doubt, nor is it a sign of weakness to show tolerance for disagreement. Even if you believe the other side is corrupt or dishonest, there is always a way to prove it rationally without emotion or namecalling, if you are right. Strong talk is strong, but not necessarily shrill.
March 20th, 2006 at 9:23 am
so this is one of those IF, THEN sort of things?
IF I wasn’t disgusted by racism/biogtry/hatred, THEN bigots wouldn’t be so bigoted right?
IF ol enkidu were to be more tolerant of SGT MARINE type drivel, THEN (mb just mb) your typical wingnut would be less of a complete ass?
IF I sit quietly and do nothing, THEN the hard core right wing will suddenly find peace, equality, justice, the rule of law and cooperation to be the road to success?
The problem with this is that I am reacting to things/events/people beyond my control. Knocking me for being critical of intolerance (as in why can’t you be more tolerant of my intolerance!) assumes that the bad behavior is contingent upon my reaction to it. Can you see where I am going here? That my Dad is bigoted is regretable, but I sure don’t start a big row about it, I simply avoid having my children around when he spouts off.
I already admited I was lazy in my use of language with regards to the whole “anyone left of _________” Beyond that, I just don’t see much point in being more than passing polite to wingnuts who can’t shoot straight. Please see von Rumsfeld’s comments over the weekend about leaving Iraq now (its like turning germany over to the nazis after ww2!!!! paging Godwin, Godwin to the white courtesy phone, please)
jbc’s post is about why our troops think Saddam perp’d 9/11.
Saddam had no connection. None. That is reality. Our troops are fed wingnut echo chamber lies.