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	<title>Comments on: Iraq War Dead for January, 2006</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.lies.com/wp/2006/02/20/iraq-war-dead-for-january-2006/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2006/02/20/iraq-war-dead-for-january-2006/</link>
	<description>believe nothing...</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 02:22:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: jbc</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2006/02/20/iraq-war-dead-for-january-2006/#comment-15480</link>
		<dc:creator>jbc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2006 06:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/wp/2006/02/20/iraq-war-dead-for-january-2006/#comment-15480</guid>
		<description>Yeah. Or you could just point to the total numbers of deaths so far, and eliminate any whining over where to put the beginning and endpoints: Iraq (to date): 2,303. Vietnam: 58,226.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah. Or you could just point to the total numbers of deaths so far, and eliminate any whining over where to put the beginning and endpoints: Iraq (to date): 2,303. Vietnam: 58,226.</p>
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		<title>By: slcdb</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2006/02/20/iraq-war-dead-for-january-2006/#comment-15479</link>
		<dc:creator>slcdb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Mar 2006 23:10:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/wp/2006/02/20/iraq-war-dead-for-january-2006/#comment-15479</guid>
		<description>"you’re free to draw your own graphs, if you have a way of presenting the information that you believe would be more honest. In that case, feel free to post a comment"

Maybe a more "honest" way to assess fatality numbers from the two was would be to look at the average fatalities per day for the entire course of each war. This way no one can accuse you of comparing apples and oranges by comparing vastly different phases of the wars with each other.

Here are the numbers that I calculated:

Vietnam War:
   Length: 2,800 days
   Deaths: 58,226
   Deaths per day: 20.795

Iraq War:
   Length: 1,100 days
   Deaths: 2,302
   Deaths per day: 2.093

There were 10 times more deaths per day, on average, in the Vietnam War than in the Iraq war. I agree that this doesn't by any means imply that the Vietnam war was somehow "worse" but I think it does give a feel for the the difference in magnitude between the numbers of lives lost in the two conflicts.

The length of each war in the above data is based on the duration of major combat operations (August 1965 to March 1973 for Vietnam, March 2003 to Present for Iraq). Even if the end of "major combat operations" for Iraq is considered to be the infamous "Mission Accomplished" day there is still a huge disparity between both wars:

Iraq War (up to "mission accomplished"):
   Length: 42 days (3/19/03 to 5/1/03)
   Deaths: 137
   Deaths per day: 3.262

Still many times more lives were lost each day, on average, in Vietnam than during the phase of the Iraq war in which most of the intense fighting occurred. 

This is just another way of looking at the figures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;you’re free to draw your own graphs, if you have a way of presenting the information that you believe would be more honest. In that case, feel free to post a comment&#8221;</p>
<p>Maybe a more &#8220;honest&#8221; way to assess fatality numbers from the two was would be to look at the average fatalities per day for the entire course of each war. This way no one can accuse you of comparing apples and oranges by comparing vastly different phases of the wars with each other.</p>
<p>Here are the numbers that I calculated:</p>
<p>Vietnam War:<br />
   Length: 2,800 days<br />
   Deaths: 58,226<br />
   Deaths per day: 20.795</p>
<p>Iraq War:<br />
   Length: 1,100 days<br />
   Deaths: 2,302<br />
   Deaths per day: 2.093</p>
<p>There were 10 times more deaths per day, on average, in the Vietnam War than in the Iraq war. I agree that this doesn&#8217;t by any means imply that the Vietnam war was somehow &#8220;worse&#8221; but I think it does give a feel for the the difference in magnitude between the numbers of lives lost in the two conflicts.</p>
<p>The length of each war in the above data is based on the duration of major combat operations (August 1965 to March 1973 for Vietnam, March 2003 to Present for Iraq). Even if the end of &#8220;major combat operations&#8221; for Iraq is considered to be the infamous &#8220;Mission Accomplished&#8221; day there is still a huge disparity between both wars:</p>
<p>Iraq War (up to &#8220;mission accomplished&#8221;):<br />
   Length: 42 days (3/19/03 to 5/1/03)<br />
   Deaths: 137<br />
   Deaths per day: 3.262</p>
<p>Still many times more lives were lost each day, on average, in Vietnam than during the phase of the Iraq war in which most of the intense fighting occurred. </p>
<p>This is just another way of looking at the figures.</p>
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		<title>By: tlstrieg</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2006/02/20/iraq-war-dead-for-january-2006/#comment-15462</link>
		<dc:creator>tlstrieg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Feb 2006 14:46:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/wp/2006/02/20/iraq-war-dead-for-january-2006/#comment-15462</guid>
		<description>Will8,

You said, "The number of wounded in Viet Nam was about equal to the number of deaths."

I'm not sure what you mean, and maybe I'm misinterpreting you statement, but in Vietman there were over 58,000 deaths and over 300,000 wounded.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will8,</p>
<p>You said, &#8220;The number of wounded in Viet Nam was about equal to the number of deaths.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure what you mean, and maybe I&#8217;m misinterpreting you statement, but in Vietman there were over 58,000 deaths and over 300,000 wounded.</p>
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		<title>By: tlstrieg</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2006/02/20/iraq-war-dead-for-january-2006/#comment-15461</link>
		<dc:creator>tlstrieg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Feb 2006 14:36:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/wp/2006/02/20/iraq-war-dead-for-january-2006/#comment-15461</guid>
		<description>As a Vietnam veteran I'd like to point out one difference between the period between December 1961 - December 1964 in Vietnam and March 2003 - present in Iraq.  During the first three and a half years of the Vietnam war (1961 - 1964) U.S. troops were there in an advisory role.  U.S. combat units were not committed to Vietnam until March 1965 when the U.S. marines landed in Danang, and it wasn't until summer of that year that the first Army divisions arrived.  In Iraq, combat units were committed at the biginning of the war.  Therefore, comparing casualties for the period between 1961 - 1964 and 2003 - 2005 is somewhat misleading because of the difference in the missions of those two periods.

Despite the fact that there were more troops in Vietnam at the time, a more comparable period would be between 1965 - 1968 and 2003 -2005.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a Vietnam veteran I&#8217;d like to point out one difference between the period between December 1961 - December 1964 in Vietnam and March 2003 - present in Iraq.  During the first three and a half years of the Vietnam war (1961 - 1964) U.S. troops were there in an advisory role.  U.S. combat units were not committed to Vietnam until March 1965 when the U.S. marines landed in Danang, and it wasn&#8217;t until summer of that year that the first Army divisions arrived.  In Iraq, combat units were committed at the biginning of the war.  Therefore, comparing casualties for the period between 1961 - 1964 and 2003 - 2005 is somewhat misleading because of the difference in the missions of those two periods.</p>
<p>Despite the fact that there were more troops in Vietnam at the time, a more comparable period would be between 1965 - 1968 and 2003 -2005.</p>
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		<title>By: treehugger</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2006/02/20/iraq-war-dead-for-january-2006/#comment-15459</link>
		<dc:creator>treehugger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:24:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/wp/2006/02/20/iraq-war-dead-for-january-2006/#comment-15459</guid>
		<description>Excellent point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent point.</p>
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		<title>By: Will8</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2006/02/20/iraq-war-dead-for-january-2006/#comment-15458</link>
		<dc:creator>Will8</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2006 23:06:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/wp/2006/02/20/iraq-war-dead-for-january-2006/#comment-15458</guid>
		<description>The number of wounded in Viet Nam was about equal to the number of deaths.  In Iraq, the number of wounded far exceeds the number of deaths.  I think that the two numbers need to be compared in any discussion because there are, because of advanced medical care, fewer deaths now than 30 years ago.  The extended cost of the war in Iraq due to the permanent injuries and future medical costs associated with the treatment of those injuries will be a presently uncalculated cost that will burden the next several generations ... more deficits created by this Administration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The number of wounded in Viet Nam was about equal to the number of deaths.  In Iraq, the number of wounded far exceeds the number of deaths.  I think that the two numbers need to be compared in any discussion because there are, because of advanced medical care, fewer deaths now than 30 years ago.  The extended cost of the war in Iraq due to the permanent injuries and future medical costs associated with the treatment of those injuries will be a presently uncalculated cost that will burden the next several generations &#8230; more deficits created by this Administration.</p>
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		<title>By: jbc</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2006/02/20/iraq-war-dead-for-january-2006/#comment-15457</link>
		<dc:creator>jbc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2006 05:07:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/wp/2006/02/20/iraq-war-dead-for-january-2006/#comment-15457</guid>
		<description>Dunno. If the latest violence is a sign that the long-predicted civil war is getting going in earnest, I could see that leading to an intensification of fighting and a spike in US deaths, but I could just as easily see it leading to a drop in US deaths as the insurgents focus more on killing Iraqis and the US hangs back and doesn't try to intervene. Mostly, though, I think things are likely to continue more or less as they have been going.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dunno. If the latest violence is a sign that the long-predicted civil war is getting going in earnest, I could see that leading to an intensification of fighting and a spike in US deaths, but I could just as easily see it leading to a drop in US deaths as the insurgents focus more on killing Iraqis and the US hangs back and doesn&#8217;t try to intervene. Mostly, though, I think things are likely to continue more or less as they have been going.</p>
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		<title>By: neoliminal</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2006/02/20/iraq-war-dead-for-january-2006/#comment-15456</link>
		<dc:creator>neoliminal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:44:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/wp/2006/02/20/iraq-war-dead-for-january-2006/#comment-15456</guid>
		<description>Do you suspect we are about to experience a spike in the conflict?  I don't think we are, but it's possible if Bush widens the war to include either Syria or Iran, but currently we aren't fighting on a "front" in the same way they were in Vietnam.  We're now more in a police action rather than a war.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you suspect we are about to experience a spike in the conflict?  I don&#8217;t think we are, but it&#8217;s possible if Bush widens the war to include either Syria or Iran, but currently we aren&#8217;t fighting on a &#8220;front&#8221; in the same way they were in Vietnam.  We&#8217;re now more in a police action rather than a war.</p>
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		<title>By: jbc</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2006/02/20/iraq-war-dead-for-january-2006/#comment-15455</link>
		<dc:creator>jbc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:22:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>People have asked for that before, but I've never been able to find good data on the month-by-month troop levels for Vietnam. From what data I have found, my sense is that the monthly death toll tracks pretty closely with current troop levels for each conflict. In other words, neither war is particularly more deadly for a given number of soldiers than the other -- though in each case, death rates are also closely tied to what sort of activity is happening at the time. During the first battle of Fallujah, for example, or during the Tet Offensive, casualty rates go way up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People have asked for that before, but I&#8217;ve never been able to find good data on the month-by-month troop levels for Vietnam. From what data I have found, my sense is that the monthly death toll tracks pretty closely with current troop levels for each conflict. In other words, neither war is particularly more deadly for a given number of soldiers than the other &#8212; though in each case, death rates are also closely tied to what sort of activity is happening at the time. During the first battle of Fallujah, for example, or during the Tet Offensive, casualty rates go way up.</p>
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		<title>By: neoliminal</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2006/02/20/iraq-war-dead-for-january-2006/#comment-15454</link>
		<dc:creator>neoliminal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 21:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/wp/2006/02/20/iraq-war-dead-for-january-2006/#comment-15454</guid>
		<description>Could you create a graph showing the relative death tolls PER CAPITA of soldiers.  In otherwords, if we have more troops in Iraq than we had at the time in Vietnam, then show the ratio of deaths to soldiers in the field for each conflict over time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could you create a graph showing the relative death tolls PER CAPITA of soldiers.  In otherwords, if we have more troops in Iraq than we had at the time in Vietnam, then show the ratio of deaths to soldiers in the field for each conflict over time.</p>
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		<title>By: jbc</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2006/02/20/iraq-war-dead-for-january-2006/#comment-15452</link>
		<dc:creator>jbc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 03:40:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/wp/2006/02/20/iraq-war-dead-for-january-2006/#comment-15452</guid>
		<description>I don't know what you're talking about. I've adjusted the disclaimer in my ongoing effort to say clearly what it is I am (and what I am not) trying to imply by posting these graphs, but if my changes have been predicted in the past by critics, I'm not aware of it. If you want to state more clearly what it is you think I'm doing, and what it is you think it demonstrates, then maybe we can engage in some sort of dialog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know what you&#8217;re talking about. I&#8217;ve adjusted the disclaimer in my ongoing effort to say clearly what it is I am (and what I am not) trying to imply by posting these graphs, but if my changes have been predicted in the past by critics, I&#8217;m not aware of it. If you want to state more clearly what it is you think I&#8217;m doing, and what it is you think it demonstrates, then maybe we can engage in some sort of dialog.</p>
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		<title>By: TeacherVet</title>
		<link>http://www.lies.com/wp/2006/02/20/iraq-war-dead-for-january-2006/#comment-15450</link>
		<dc:creator>TeacherVet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2006 20:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lies.com/wp/2006/02/20/iraq-war-dead-for-january-2006/#comment-15450</guid>
		<description>Strangely enough(?), you made adjustments to your disclaimer just as the molehill is about to reach the mountain.  Such changes were predicted by posters when you first posted the graphs - so those folks didn't "lie."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Strangely enough(?), you made adjustments to your disclaimer just as the molehill is about to reach the mountain.  Such changes were predicted by posters when you first posted the graphs - so those folks didn&#8217;t &#8220;lie.&#8221;</p>
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