Krugman on ‘Steal This Vote’
Paul Krugman talks about the 2000 and 2004 elections, and about what might happen in 2008: What they did last fall.
In his recent book “Steal This Vote” – a very judicious work, despite its title – Andrew Gumbel, a U.S. correspondent for the British newspaper The Independent, provides the best overview I’ve seen of the 2000 Florida vote. And he documents the simple truth: “Al Gore won the 2000 presidential election.”
Two different news media consortiums reviewed Florida’s ballots; both found that a full manual recount would have given the election to Mr. Gore. This was true despite a host of efforts by state and local officials to suppress likely Gore votes, most notably Ms. Harris’s “felon purge,” which disenfranchised large numbers of valid voters.
August 21st, 2005 at 12:45 pm
Only one little problem with Krugman’s statement about the recounts. It is not true. All recounts found that there was no possiblity for Gore to win and the main sponsor of the one of the recounts that he cites is none other than The New York Times, the paper for which he works. But don’t let facts hinder your argument.
August 21st, 2005 at 3:22 pm
Your statement is clearly false. While different media organizations’ post-election analyses have shown different results, it is not true that “all recounts found that there was no possibiliity for Gore to win.” Quoting from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election,_2000#Media_post-electoral_studies.2Frecounts:
[quoting]
A larger consortium of news organizations, including the USA Today, the Miami Herald, Knight Ridder, the Tampa Tribune, and five other newspapers next conducted a full recount of all ballots, including both undervotes and overvotes. According to their results, under stricter standards for vote counting, Bush won, and under looser standards, Gore won. [7] However, a Gore win was impossible without a recount of overvotes, which he did not request.
According to the study, only 3% of the 111,261 overvotes had markings that could be interpreted as a legal vote. According to Anthony Salvado, a political scientist at the University of California, Irvine, who acted as a consultant on the media recount, most of the errors were caused by ballot design, ballot wording, and efforts by voters to choose both a president and a vice-president. For example, 21,188 of the Florida overvotes, or nearly one-fifth of the total, originated from Duval County, where the presidential race was split across two pages. Voters were instructed to “vote every page”. Half of the overvotes in Duval County had one presidential candidate marked on each page, making their vote illegal under Florida law. Salvado says that this error alone cost Gore the election.
Including overvotes in the above totals for undervotes gives different margins of victory:
Lenient standard. Gore by 332 votes.
Palm Beach standard. Gore by 242 votes.
Two-corner standard. Bush by 407 votes.
Strict standard. Bush by 152 votes.
[end quoting]
I get really tired of people whose main source of information is the right-wing echo chamber coming here to post silliness they’ve heard from Rush Limbaugh or Bill O’Reilly. I think the thing that bugs me the most is the apparent sincerity from these folks: You sound like you honestly believe that what you’re saying here is correct, even though you obviously didn’t spend even 30 seconds trying to verify it. No, you just heard it from some bullshit artist who’s figured out that by tellling you what you want to believe, and making it sound authoritative, you’ll suck it up and never question it.
Nice going, dude.
August 21st, 2005 at 6:33 pm
I got my information not from the right wing news, but from the New York Times, which would be the Left-Wing news. It is also the paper for which Krugman works. Even they have discredited his statements.
You might want to do some checking on his OPINION before you state it as fact. It would be a good idea to check the PAPER for which Krugman works, before using his quotes that his employer has proven false.
jbc, it might help your case if you would read what you posted instead of believing the shrill cry from the Left that the election was stolen. I do understand that by a lenient standard, Pol Pot COULD have won the election in Florida, but the standard to follow would actually be the Law of the State of Florida, which was followed and ruled upon by a majority of the Left-Leaning United States Supreme Court. If memory serves by a vote of 7-2, but I digress.
August 21st, 2005 at 7:39 pm
Yeah, again with the talking-out-your-ass commentary. If you’ve got some specific NYT piece that refutes something in the Krugman column, quote it and/or link to it. Until then, you’re just bullshitting. Which is your prerogative, of course.
The main Supreme Court decision that bugged me (can’t speak for the rest of the vast left-wing conspiracy) in Bush v. Gore wasn’t the 7-2 decision to stop the recount. It was the 5-4 decision that said there would be no subsequent recount, which was signed off on by those five ultraliberals: Kennedy, O’Connor, Rehnquist, Scalia, and Thomas.
Damn you, Left-Leaning United States Supreme Court!
August 22nd, 2005 at 7:21 am
Man, between the ultraliberal supreme court, the insanely liberal (and Jewish) media, and the level of activism displayed by the judicial branch – we’re all fucked. We may as well have government subsidized ass-chastity belts with all of the activism, gayness, and gay activism going on in this country. (For the record, I’m against subsidizing anything but oil, war and the good ol’ King James bible, because subsidising anything else might be constrewed as liberal, and everyone knows that liberal=FAG, and I ain’t neither of those!). I’m going to go listen to Limbaugh and slap another “Rush is right” sticker on my car. Screw you guys. (end sarcastic rant…in case anyone missed that)
FWIW, I’m over the ‘stolen election’ crap. For better or for worse, Bush is our nation’s leader, our military’s commander in chief, and the grand poobah of the executive branch. Unless there is any ironclad evidence showing that anyone in the Bush administration was involved in some kind of election fraud (thus calling for an impeachment), I’m not really interested.
To sum this all up: the other bad guys lost by a very small margin. If the votes were counted differently, the other bad guys would have won by a very small margin and the bad guys would not be in office. Unfortunately, the bad guys are in office and the other bad guys aren’t.
Now…can we get back to the task of making fun of the bad guy? (That would be GW Bush, for those who were lost by my asenine logic)
August 22nd, 2005 at 9:46 am
Yeah, it’s pretty easy to spot O’Rielly viewers and Limbaugh listeners. They all make the exact same statements without any back up.
Next thing we’ll hear is that it is Cindy Sheehan’s fault the US is losing the war in Iraq.
“Bring it on”.
August 23rd, 2005 at 6:03 pm
No, but global warming _is_ caused by the lack of pirates.
August 24th, 2005 at 7:35 am
Aye matie. We rob the high seas to fight global warming, and we’re a dying breed we are.
August 24th, 2005 at 5:38 pm
THEY ARE STILL SO MAD ABOUT 2000 GET OVER IT YOU BUNCH OF CRY BABIES
August 24th, 2005 at 8:56 pm
I assume that TwoDogs is referring to the information in this article .
August 24th, 2005 at 10:38 pm
Ah. That liberal beacon of truth: The National Review Online. No wonder.
That guy has to have the ugliest blog I’ve ever seen. Even if I wanted to read it, I won’t. “The Conspiracy to keep you Poor & Stupid.” Did he borrow that shit colored gradient in his logo from Fox?
I did briefly read the NYT article it linked to. I didn’t see anything conflicting with Krugman’s statement that a full manual recount would have given the election to Gore. Especially if “voter intent” were carried out. But whatever. It hurts my brain too much to give it much more attention at this point.
August 25th, 2005 at 7:23 am
Hey 3WOOD:
Its hard to get over something when the reults should have been different, and billoins of dollars and thousands of lives would not have been wasted.
Fear not though, I predict the next election will be overwhelmingly Democrat. I mean, whats the right going to run on, their record? HA!!
August 25th, 2005 at 4:14 pm
they need another 9/11 to bolster the hate/fear and get Dumbya’s/Republicreeps ratings back out of the sewer
After seeing McCain hug and kiss Dumbya during the 04 election cycle there is no way in hell I could vote for him. Would have gladly in 00 and 04 despite his many shortcomings.
Do you REALLY think McCain would have invaded Iraq? No. He would have hunted Osama until his pelt adorned the White House as a rug.
And one more thing tighty rightys: all these comparisons to WWII need to stop… four year (less) after the US entered the war: Hitler, dead. And the Japanese Emperor was crapping his pants signing away his ‘divinity’ on the deck of the Missouri (Tojo, dead – hanged in ’48)
We are without doubt the most powerful nation on earth and we can’t seem to squash a bunch of flea infested maniacs with zero industrial base? Sure they get some money on the sly from all those petro dollars, but give me farkin break boys! NEWSFLASH – it is all about oil ($68 a barrel and climbing – I am sure the petroleum industry is so sad about that – translation: record profits)
August 25th, 2005 at 4:15 pm
ah if only we had more pirates, things would be different
arg!
August 26th, 2005 at 1:28 pm
OK…I just got the pirate reference. I’m obviously behind the curve. WWFSMD?
August 26th, 2005 at 2:01 pm
I espy with my little meatball eye another Pastafarian
can one be a Pirate AND a FSM disciple at the same time?
took me a minute to figure out your WWFSMD
lol!
August 26th, 2005 at 2:21 pm
Well, in order to worship His Holy Au Denteness, you will need full pirate garb…so you’d already be halfway there.