McCain on the Swift Boat Ad
John McCain doesn’t like seeing the same stuff that was pulled on him during his 2000 campaign being pulled now on Kerry: McCain condemns anti-Kerry ad.
I realize the Bush folks believe they have to try to neutralize Kerry’s war-hero status, but I honestly think this is going to backfire. In six months’ time, I think we may well be looking back on this as the defining moment of the presidential campaign, when mainstream voters looked at the two sides’ arguments and concluded that it was Kerry, not Bush, they were willing to entrust with the presidency.
Update: For the closest thing I think you’re going to be able to find to an objective debunking of the Swift-boat charges, see this Snopes page: Swift justice. Courtesy of a commenter on Donald Sensing’s piece Swift boat veterans speak out.
August 5th, 2004 at 1:34 pm
REPORT FROM THE FRONT FINAL THOUGHTS – the Vietnam Veterans against Kerry demonstration at the DNC.
It’s now been a week since the Vietnam Vets serenaded John Kerry at the Fleet Center and in front of his house. The thing that amazes me the most is the degree to which the mainstream media has totally ignored our legitimate expressions of anger at the con job the Democrat National Committee was trying to foist on America so they could grab more power over us.
My wife, the fabulous Cindy, reminded me of PT Barnum’s favorite saying “You can fool some of the people all of the time, and you can fool all of the people some of the time, but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time.” The latter is what Kerry and his minions are trying to do to America this election season. Apparently they think us Vietnam Era Vets are senile by now and don’t remember his treachery that caused us to lose that war and denied us the honor we so richly earned.
I have this warning to the veterans of latter generations:
IF JOHN KERRY IS ELECTED, I PROMISE YOU HE WILL STEAL YOUR HONOR AS HE STOLE OURS.”
Back to our demonstration and march. The media was there outside the Fleet Center by the hundreds and I had hundreds of cameras in my face as we advanced our banner into their consciousness. I personally was interviewed perhaps twenty times and I saw numerous other comrades interviewed also. WHERE ARE THOSE TAPES? ARE THEY BEING HIDDEN ON PURPOSE?
I will say that Channel Five ABC in Boston did show brief snippets of our efforts Wednesday and Thursday on their eleven o’clock news and another guy handed my daughter a cell phone and a voice told her:
“You’re on the radio, how old are you?” To which she answered “Nine.”
He then asked “Why don’t you like John Kerry?” and she answered “Because he’s a liar and I don’t like his chin.”
But that was all I know of. Kerry can never win if we can get the word out that two thirds of all Vietnam Veterans dislike him intensely, but how are we going to do that if the media will ignore us?
The following links describe my experience those nights and a few pictures I took of the situation:
http://pep.typepad.com/public_enquiry_project/2004/07/report_from_the.html
http://pep.typepad.com/public_enquiry_project/2004/07/report_from_the_1.html
http://pep.typepad.com/photos/viet_vets_at_the_dnc/index.html
August 5th, 2004 at 3:36 pm
The present Commander In Thief cannot even convincingly prove he did not leave the service with a DD.Are we to believe only a Rambo can lead the nation now? The best Commander in Chief of the 20th Century was a liberal in a wheelchair.
August 6th, 2004 at 1:41 pm
Funny how liberals think its okay to trash Bush’s service record but anyone who questions the war hero status of John Kerry is a liar.
August 6th, 2004 at 2:21 pm
New:
The problem with Bush’s service record is that it barely exists. Fact is, the whole Swift Boat thing is crumbling quickly – one of the commanding officers has already recanted, etc. etc. Lies are lies. What else you got?
What this whole thing proves to me is the utter shamelessness of conservatives who are trying to say that Kerry’s service record is shameful. Kerry was on a swift boat in Vietnam when Bush was partying with ambitious secretaries. Not even in the same universe.
August 6th, 2004 at 2:58 pm
Funny how conservatives think its okay to trash Kerry’s war hero status but anyone who questions George Bush’s service record is a liar.
August 6th, 2004 at 11:03 pm
Bush has a service record?
August 7th, 2004 at 9:34 pm
Here are some thoughts I shared with a journalist at a conservative news site. (I made a few changes, and tacked a few things on at the end.)
—
I just want to share with you my take on this new swift boat ad. Based on what I know, here’s what’s going on:
– after returning from the war in the early 70’s, Kerry spoke out against the US policies, and made some people mad; he’s acknowledged he could have said some things more tactfully, but stands by his positions
– a wealthy Texas donor with close ties to Karl Rove has set up a political action group to take advantage of the pool of vets who Kerry ticked off in the early 70’s
– none of these vets actually served on Kerry’s swift boat
– most of those who criticize him had little contact at all with Kerry, and know him mainly from TV spots in the 70’s [and other media]
– some of those who did know him wrote him positive evaluations during his service
– one of them has changed his story about Kerry twice in the past week alone (not just slightly altered; he said he retracted everything, and then he retracted the retraction)
Your editorial indicates that you may be aware of most of this, since you quote Roy Hoffman, the chairman of the group, as making a statement that has far more to do with politics than with Kerry’s service: “the real band of brothers,” he says, “are those who honorably and reliably stayed the course.”
You also quote Andy Horne from Houston as saying “he was silent 35 years ago about John Kerry’s allegations about atrocities, but vowed that he ‘won’t be silent ever again.’ ” You write, “The passage of time has had little effect on the raw emotions of these gray-haired veterans.” You quote former Lt. Robert Elder as talking about the ” ‘deep sense of betrayal’ he feels at the hands of a fellow naval officer.”
In other words, this is about a political disagreement that these vets had with Kerry after Kerry left Vietnam, not what he did while he was there.
The ad does not make this clear, however. And while neither Kerry nor Bush are seeking to divide the country over the issue of Vietnam, there are some groups on both sides — though none more dishonest than this one — who are trying to unpatriotically open up old wounds that were beginning to heal.
John McCain called the ad “dishonest and dishonorable.”
“It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me,” McCain said, and we all know he’s talking about the truly below-the-belt tactics Rove used on him in 2000 during the primaries.
Retired Sgt. 1st Class Albert Lewis from Georgia said, “When I saw that, my blood pressure went up. I told my wife, these guys, I bet you, if they were in Vietnam, they were in hotels back in Saigon, eating steak and eggs for breakfast.”
James Rassmann, who unlike the “Swift Boat Veterans” group, actually served on Kerry’s boat, said, “What these people have said is not true… These gentlemen appear to be making this up as they go along and they are not keeping their stories straight.” Rassmann was a life-long Republican until learning Kerry would be running for president, and then he promptly switched sides to support him.
Fred Short, who served with Kerry, said the ad showed that “the Bush campaign has nothing to talk about, so they resort to these dirty tricks.”
The group has hired a private investigator to dig up dirt on Kerry similar to the stuff Rove tried to dig up on McCain in 2000. Their thresshold for truth is very low; what they’re really interested in is finding information, confirmed or otherwise, that makes an ex-Vietnam vet look like a dope.
Pat Runyon also served on Kerry’s boat. He talked to the group’s private investigator, and told the Dallas Morning News he was startled to learn the investigator had added serious inaccuracies to the interview transcript he was later sent. Among other things, Runyon said the new interview transcript indicated he’d told the investigator a Kerry injury had been caused by a flare instead of a bullet.
So we know what to expect from this group in the next couple of months. If you have a different take on what they’re about, I’m curious to hear it. But this is my best analysis.
Dan
Re:
Kate’s Take: Brothers Against Kerry
http://www.nationalreview.com/kob/kob200405050843.asp
p.s. If you haven’t followed Rove very closely, one of the strategies he has sometimes employed is to throw out a lot of dirt — whether innuendo or fact — and simply hope enough of it sticks to bring down the opposition.
a few links with either the other side, or a more balanced side
http://www.wtvm.com/Global/story.asp?S=2143692&nav=8fapPcY4
http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2004/07/16/swift_boat_veterans/
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=5901447
http://www.democrats.org/blog/comment/00010876.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/07/politics/campaign/07ads.html
—-
also, more recently:
About the guy who recanted and then recanted his recantment. Elliot and others in Swift Boat Veterans for Truth said Kerry didn’t deserve a Silver Star for bravery when, while under fire, Kerry shot a man who had a live B-40 rocket. We now know that Elliot has recanted each of his positions at least twice.
From the New York Times:
–
“I still don’t think he shot the guy in the back,” The Globe quoted Commander [George] Elliott [of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth group] as saying. “It was a terrible mistake probably for me to sign the affidavit with those words.”
The paper also quoted him as saying he had signed it in haste because the group, which is also behind a new book questioning Mr. Kerry’s record that is set for release next week, was eager to have his statement in hand.
Commander Elliott had already shown some inconsistency concerning Mr. Kerry’s record, especially regarding his storied encounter with the Vietcong, who was armed with a rocket launcher.
…[In 1996] Commander Elliott spoke in Mr. Kerry’s defense, telling reporters, “The fact that he chased an armed enemy down is something not to be looked down upon, but it was an act of courage.”
—
From Short, about that incident, from the Boston Globe, 1996 (if you say that’s a liberal paper, well, this was a Massachusetts senate race, so they’re the ones who actually cared). Short was there and said Kerry’s action saved his crew.
–
“I laid in fire with the twin .50s, and he got behind a hootch,” recalled Short. “I laid 50 rounds in there, and Mr. Kerry went in. Rounds were coming everywhere. We were getting fire from both sides of the river. It was a canal. We were receiving fire from the opposite bank, also, and there was no way I could bring my guns to bear on that.”
Short said there is “no doubt” that Kerry saved the boat and crew. “That was a him-or-us thing, that was a loaded weapon with a shape charge on it . . . It could pierce a tank. I wouldn’t have been here talking to you. I probably prayed more up that creek than a Southern Baptist church does in a month.”
Charles Gibson, who served on Kerry’s boat that day because he was on a one-week indoctrination course, said Kerry’s action was dangerous but necessary. “Every day you wake up and say, ‘How the hell did we get out of that alive?'” Gibson said. “Kerry was a good leader. He knew what he was doing.”
—
Capt. Wade Sanders, former deputy assistant secretary of the Navy, said there was a partisan motive in the group’s ads, which the RNC then denied.
“I don’t think that many of the people who are following this gentleman, Capt. (sic) Roy Hoffmann, really understand the political implications of what’s going on here, I mean what’s fronting this.”
In 1996 Sanders also defended Kerry. He said that “from our position, the tactic to take is whatever action is best designed to eliminate the enemy threat, which is what [Kerry] did.”
Kerry’s Silver Star citation reads in part:
“After proceeding approximately eight hundred yards, the boats again were taken under fire from a heavily foliated area and B-40 rocket exploded close aboard PCF-94; with utter disregard for his own safety and the enemy rockets, he again ordered a charge on the enemy, beached his boat only ten feet from the VC rocket position, and personally led a landing party ashore in pursuit of the enemy. Upon sweeping the area an immediate search uncovered an enemy rest and supply area which was destroyed. The extraordinary daring and personal courage of Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry in attacking a numerically superior force in the face of intense fire were responsible for the highly successful mission. His actions were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.”
I haven’t spent a lot of time questioning the service records of either Bush or Kerry, but I do think it’s strange for people to bring up how Kerry was injured and when, or how brave he was, considering that Bush endure any of it. Kerry’s shipmates say he was brave, and they say he was a good leader. We know Kerry volunteered to go to Vietnam, so he must have been somewhat courageous and patriotic. Maybe he’s just a clumsy wimp who hates America, like these guys are implying, but it doesn’t add up for me.
* one final thing: some of these vets are from Coastal 11 Division, which in the 70’s Kerry singled out in the media sometimes because he was familiar with it. This was his own division but the people who are speaking out against Kerry are those who had little contact with him. Those who worked closely with Kerry tend to regard him highly; recall that Rassmann even switched political parties to work for Kerry’s 2004 campaign.
August 9th, 2004 at 8:41 am
The ad is pathetic. The Swift boat lamebrains need to get over it. Vietnam was a disaster and we sacrificed enough for that generation of government liars and cowards willing to send everyone else’s kids off to do their dirty work. I also morn the loss of my friends in that “war” but I direct my rage to the spineless Congress(Democrats and Republicans) that created our involvement out of the fabricated Tonkin Gulf incident and then could not stop the madness in order to cover their sorry political butts or endorse a strategy to finish the job. We all believed in our government and our purpose and we were, and still are, left holding the bag, disdained by the WWII vets, the right and the left. Now, to finish the job, the cheap shot artists are trying to have us dismember each other.
The people I served with were all heroes, typically under 21 years of age and old before their time. You don’t have to like Kerry’s politics or McCain’s but do not compare their service to the President’s. He showed his colors a long time ago. He was a screw up until he nearly 40. His Father walked the walk, this guy is just talk.
USMC-Chu Lai-67.
August 9th, 2004 at 11:07 am
The Dems should fight fire with fire. Bush bailed on his physical because of the newly instituted drug screening. Let’s face it, a commander doesn’t let a highly trained pilot walk away from his command and leave him short handed. Particularly to go do volunteer work for a friends political campaign. I believe we were bombing North Viet Nam during this time frame, his unit was on high alert status. He was a party boy who probably inhaled and from the rumors he may have used a little nose candy. Throw this out in the red meat loving media backed by some rumors and inuendos. Kerry’s record is official, backed by men who served side by side with him.
Who from Alabama will be standing at the podium at the Republican Convention speaking of Bush’s service record.
August 9th, 2004 at 12:31 pm
Tom:
I agree with you that Bush’s record stinks, but it’s been proven again and again to be a loser issue. No one cares. On the other hand, there’s a reason that the right is so scared of the seven minutes thing: because it’s one of the irrefutable points that strike at the heart of all Bush has left – the “strong leader” image.
Fact is, the right knows how to play dirty better than the left. When the left tries it, they fuck it up because they can’t go all out, and it backfires. As I’ve said again and again in the last few months, strength is all that matters in this society today, and certainly in the political arena. Truth, intention, history, results – none of that matters. Strength is all.
August 11th, 2004 at 7:13 am
John Kerry has no honor and he endangers America.
While John Kerry promises that he will take care of us veterans; those of us who weren’t born yesterday know that he’s lying and he knows it.
How do we know it? Well, we know that each and every one of the Neocoms who support him shares the feelings of “verplanck colvin” who recently posted the following on the PUBLIC ENQUIRY PROJECT site:
“…Oh, and as for Vietnam, GET OVER IT. This post-baby-boomer is sick of hearing the self-centered bleatings of a washed up generation debate over this war AGAIN. Who cares if Kerry tossed his ribbons/medals? Who cares if Bush snorted coke and missed out on reporting for duty in Alabama? I don’t!… Posted by: verplanck colvin”
These are the people Kerry would appoint to implement his policies. The fact that these folks hate us is secondary to the fact that they would be responsible for the defense of America.
DOESN’T ANYONE ELSE SEE THE ABSURDITY OF PUTTING MILITARY HATERS IN CHARGE OF OUR DEFENSE IN THIS DANGEROUS WORLD?
The Democrats have absolutely no realistic military thinkers that they pay attention to. Would any Democrat have put US soldiers on the ground to kick Saddam out of Kuwait or the Taliban out of Afghanistan? I won’t even ask about Iraq.
Under a President Kerry, Somalia would be the model for military action – get out if any Americans get killed. People in the know realize that the Clinton Somalia disaster was directly responsible for…
http://pep.typepad.com/public_enquiry_project/2004/08/john_kerry_has__1.html
August 18th, 2004 at 5:47 pm
Yo, Adrian!
“You can fool some of the people all of the time, and you can fool all of the people some of the time, but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time.”
This may very well have been P.T. Barnum’s favorite saying– HIS FAVORITE SAYING BY ABRAHAM LINCOLN, THAT IS!