The Smallness of George W. Bush

Update: Slashdotties (and others) coming via should know that this item really isn’t about the whole “is Bush wearing a hidden receiver” thing. For stuff on that, see the following more-recent items: Kerry’s pen, Bush’s earpiece and Wiregate!

I think a compelling case can be made that George W. Bush is, in fact, the smallest president in the history of the United States.

Not in terms of physical stature. James Madison is the acknowledged champion in that respect. At 5′ 4″ and about 100 pounds he’d be more likely to be mistaken for a pre-teen female gymnast than the manly leader of the free world, at least in today’s televised political setting.

No, I mean in the sense of moral stature, in the sense people mean when they say that “it takes a big man to admit he’s made a mistake.”

George W. Bush will never make that admission. He will never have that kind of bigness.

The latest incident to highlight this came Thursday, when Bush, asked to comment on the indictment of former Enron chairman Ken Lay, got pissy and stalked away from the podium without answering. (Update: Um, not really, as it turns out. It was Wednesday, and it was more that he left the podium and had the Ken Lay question, to which he didn’t respond, shouted at him as he departed. See update below.)

From Capitol Hill Blue: Angry Bush walks out on media, refuses to answer questions about relationship with Ken Lay. (Update: Again, see below for my own mea culpa re: my poor judgement in being willing to link to and excerpt from the lying fucktards at Capitol Hill Blue.)

A clearly-rattled President George W. Bush walked out of a media briefing Thursday, refusing to answer questions about his close relationship with indicted Enron executive Kenneth Lay, a campaign benefactor Bush nicknamed “Kenny Boy” when the two were up-and-comers in Texas.

The President, visibly upset, stomped off the stage when reporters pressed him about his relationship with Lay and left White House press secretary Scott McClellan to deal with the questions.

Capitol Hill Blue is pretty much just a glorified anti-Bush weblog, so if you’d prefer a more mainstream source for the story, you can go to (Bush turns his back on Enron questions), or to CNN (White House plays down Bush relationship with Lay).

In honor of my current campaign to immerse myself in US history, you can also dig deeper, into some primary sources. From the post-tantrum press briefing by Scott McClellan:

Q Does the President have anything to say about the unsealing of the indictment against Ken Lay?

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, Bill, I don’t think it’s appropriate for the White House to discuss any specific criminal case. However, I’m more than happy to talk to you about this administration’s commitment to cracking down on wrongdoing. One of the President’s top priorities is to crack down on corporate wrongdoing and strengthen corporate accountability. And we have a record of accomplishment in that area.

This President has worked to go after those wrongdoers and directed his administration to pursue those who are dishonest in the boardroom. The President has made it very clear that we will not tolerate dishonesty in the boardroom.

This administration worked to uncover abuses and scandals in the corporate arena, and certainly the President’s concern is with those workers and other people who have been harmed by corporate wrongdoing. And that’s where his focus will continue to be.

Q But this particular alleged corporate wrongdoer was a personal friend of the President’s, who the President addressed as “Kenny, boy,” who raised a lot of money for the President in the 2000 election cycle, who offered corporate jets to the President for travel in Texas. He did know him well. Does he —

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, you seem to want to be fairly selective there, because let me point out that he was someone who supported Democrats and Republicans, alike, including the President, as you pointed out.

Q Well, is that all the President had to say?

MR. McCLELLAN: That’s how I would describe the relationship, and I think it’s an accurate way to describe the relationship.

Q Does President Bush consider Ken Lay a personal friend? And did the White House have any communication with the Justice Department leading up to the indictment?

MR. McCLELLAN: No. This is a Justice Department matter, and we expect the Justice Department to do their job when it comes to cracking down on corporate wrongdoing. In terms of the question you asked about Mr. Lay, the President has already addressed that, and he described it the way I did, as well.

You can compare this characterization of the Bush-Lay relationship with The Smoking Gun’s collection of correspondence between the two men.

Now, I realize that on some level this is just a big game of “gotcha”, and any politician in Bush’s position would try to avoid being associated with Lay. It’s not the fact of Bush’s avoidance of the Lay tarbaby that I find noteworthy. It’s the manner of his avoidance.

I mean, it should have been easy for him to answer the question with a statement that distanced himself from Lay while not acknowledging any personal wrongdoing, as McClellen basically did on his behalf later on. Politically, that would have made a lot more sense; then this whole story about how Bush refused to answer the question and stalked off would never have happened.

But see, Bush can’t, or won’t, do that. I’m sure there are Bush defenders out there spinning this as a sign of his deep sense of personal loyalty, his willingness to endure political harm rather than say something bad about an old friend. Well, you believe that if you want to. I think it’s just that such a statement would have come too close to an admission of error, something that this president, by virtue of his record-setting lack of moral stature, is simply incapable of doing.

It was easier for him to just walk away, despite the mental gasps of onlookers, answering the underlying question of “can he really be that petty, that vain, that small?” with an emphatic, “yeah, actually, he can.”

The iconic photo of that moment, as shot by the AFP’s Paul J. Richards:

The Littlest President

Update: The Capitol Hill Blue story bends things in the interest of crafting a better story. The photo of Bush was made Wednesday, not Thursday, as the CHB piece incorrectly states. The photograph was taken at the conclusion of Bush’s remarks in favor of Senate action on stalled judicial nominees; see White House transcript, video, and audio here: President Bush meets with pending Michigan judicial nominees.

The transcript and video (and audio, presumably, though I didn’t bother to listen) cuts out as Bush concludes his remarks and leaves without taking questions. Presumably reporters did shout one or more Ken Lay questions at that point, which Bush declined to answer.

The Scott McClellan comments were made the next day (Thursday) at the usual White House press briefing, with Bush not present. I thought that was pretty clear when I read the accounts, but my presentation above may have reinforced the misleading language of the CHB piece to imply that McClellan’s cleanup took place at the same venue as Bush’s earlier refusal to answer the Lay questions.

The article linked to above has a significantly more-accurate description of Bush’s action:

Mr Bush walked away from a media briefing, refusing to answer questions about Mr Lay, a close adviser dubbed “Kenny Boy” by the president.

Note also that the CNN piece I linked to talks only about the McClellan comments, and doesn’t mention Bush’s failure to respond to questions about Lay the previous day.

So, to sum up the ways in which the Capitol Hill Blue piece distorted things:

  • The briefing at which Bush spoke wasn’t on Thursday, but Wednesday. By itself, not a big deal, but it feeds into the misconception the piece creates that both the Bush actions and the McClellan follow-up happened as part of the same event, rather than as two separate events. Is that important? No, not really. But was it on purpose, as opposed to an innocent accident? Yeah, I think it probably was.
  • Bush wasn’t “angry”, “clearly-rattled”, or “visibly upset”, at least not in the portion of the event archived on the White House site. If he became so somewhere between his turning from the podium and the snapping of the AFP photo two steps away, I’d be pretty surprised. To the extent he displayed emotion, it could more reasonably be attibuted to his frustration at the slow pace of Senate confirmation of his judicial nominees.

Bush is still a putz for refusing to answer questions at a press briefing, but that’s not really anything new. Overall, while I stand by my larger point about what the incident says about Bush’s small-minded refusal to acknowledge error, in hindsight, I shouldn’t have linked to or excerpted from the Capitol Hill Blue piece, which is larded with false-to-fact spin in its opening graphs. Sorry about that.

I guess I knew that about Capitol Hill Blue already, given my post-excerpt disclaimer in the original posting. But it’s still a “fool me twice, shame on me” moment. Resolved: no more paying attention to Capitol Hill Blue. Just because I agree with their political position doesn’t mean I have time to waste parsing fact from fiction in the accounts of people willing to consciously mislead.

347 Responses to “The Smallness of George W. Bush”

  1. rick pietz Says:

    I’m on record in various places as having said that in the wee hours of the morning before the 2005 inauguration (I’m counting on Baby Bush losing, otherwise it will have to wait until ’09), Ken Lay gets pardoned. Just like Clinton did w/ Marc Rich.

  2. John F Says:

    THat’s exactly what I was thinking Rick — “Kenney Boy” will be pardoned and Cheney will get a pardon that excuses him for any wrongdoing while in office, along with anyone else in the administration that needs a “Get Out OF Jail Free” card….

  3. Andre Says:

    Why aren’t there any photos of these two guys together? they wrote hundreds of notes to each other. Ken Lay was in the white house at Energy committee mtgs — WHERE ARE THE PICTURES???

    Let’s find them & post them

  4. Maezeppa Says:

    Bush may not be able to admit his mistakes but on the bright side he cannot pardon himself.

  5. James Says:

    Bushisms the book is now Bushisms the DVD — hosted by comic uber-genius Brian Unger of The Daily Show. The DVD features Al Franken and others commenting on nucular-strength malapropisms from the presidentiary such as:
    # “War is a dangerous place.”
    # “Karyn is a West Texas girl, just like me.”
    # “Rarely is the question asked, is our children learning.”
    Check it out at

  6. chinamink Says:

    ***** W I R E G A T E *****

  7. steve Says:

    Shrub may not be able to pardon himself… but what he CAN do is pardon Tricky Dicky and everyone else in the GOP (looks like he’s gonna have to put DeLay on that list too now!) and then resign in favor of said Tricky Dicky at 2 AM before the inauguration, whereupon Rehnquist hurriedly swears Cheney into office long enough for Cheney to perform two official acts: Pardon Shrub, and issue an executive order voiding the Bill of Rights and turning the entire US Government into a Halliburton subsidiary.

    (okay, that last is maybe a LITTLE farfetched… but the crossover pardons are an obvious solution, and if I thought of it in five seconds you can bet that Karl had it in 2.5….)

  8. Mary Huling Says:

    Where is the American media??? Things like this need to be reported to the American people. Again, where is the American media when the topic of such electronic prompting during debate needs to be reported?

  9. E Davis Says:

    The picture of Bush from behind surely shows something under his jacket. I suppose it could also be some part of a bullet proof vest.
    I hope we find out.

  10. Victoria Hoagland Says:

    Sent from the Aloha State —
    I am outraged by even the possibility that Dubyah was wired during the
    first debate! Most of us regard W an intellectual midget, of
    questionable integrity, and worse — BUT THIS IS A FRAUD PERPETUATED
    UPON ALL AMERICAN CITIZENS! What will it take to pursue this issue to some conclusion? How do we voice our outrage?

  11. Sarah A Says:

    Check out carefully the photo of Bush above. Looks like he has another piece of electronics on his lower back…

  12. Pamela Jo Says:

    What is it going to take to get the press to do their job? There must be electronics experts or even possibly some “deep throat” type in the Bush camp who knows the truth. Someone need to ask the questions that will get beyond the lies. The American people deserve the truth about this.

  13. Marie Says:

    While watching numerous clips of The Shrub, including the latest debates, I alway mused over the way his eyes darted and the hurky-jerkey way he phrases his comments. After working in a phych hospital for 13 yrs., I compared his actions to someone who is “hearing voices.” However, I never took it a step farther to consider that it might actually be the case. I think you’re on to something here…or else, he needs to be committed! Maybe both???

  14. user223 Says:

    Video of a mysterious wire under Bush’s tie. A stillshot of it. And during the first debate, Bush says “let me finish” when he had the green light and no one was interrupting him. Go figure.

  15. fredric dennis williams Says:

    Why complain about the media not reporting things embarrassing to the President of the United States — especially unprovable (and therefore readily deniable) allegations. Forget CNN — THE INTERNET is the medium. Politicians can easily manage the talking heads of a few networks — a coalition of the “willing” (bribed and bullied). But how can they manage millions of observers who share their observations? BLOG ON!

  16. Amanda Says:

    Why does it even significantly matter if the President is using some type of device under his jacket? It’s just another “glitch” that Liberals are using against our President to point out his supposed “inept” presidency. It’s childish to fret over such small matters as this. The media should NOT report this because the media is already a corrupt Liberal environment that reporting this would reveal biases. I guarantee if this were Kerry, then the American society would brush it off as a mere bump or safety device!

  17. Ron Says:

    Milli Vanilli was drummed out of the music business over a lip synching scandal. Lately, I hear Brittney Spears is being accused of similar conduct by none other than Sir Elton John. These are people whose words are relatively meaningless in the scheme of things. For our President to be doing the same in a “live” debate or press conference is a BOMBSHELL!

    Use of a teleprompter is a completely different thing. A prepared speech, written on paper or scrolled on a teleprompter is still a prepared speech. No one expects any original thinking to take place. Its just a matter of delivery. (God forbid the President would be bright enough to actually memorize the thing!) But in the context of a debate or press conference, we want to see if the person knows what they are talking about and whether they can think on their feet (or for themselves). Why do you think such a big deal was made of the fact that “no one but [Charlie] knows what questions will be asked?”

    If W is wearing a wire and getting prompted by shadowy Karl Rove type figures from off stage, the President is a puppet, nothing more. The clothes have no emperor. It is cheating, plain and simple, and he should be FIRED!

  18. Beau Says:

    Why does it significantly matter if the President is using some type of device under his jacket Amanda? Because the American public has the right to know if their “president” is nothing more than a puppet on strings. The president I believe should be much more intelligent, eloquent, knowledegable, trustworthy and courageous than the average American, yet this president has failed miserably at showing any of those qualities. If it were to come out publicly that the “leader” of the free world was unable to speak his mind coherently, or simply unassisted by one of his lackeys hiding out in a back room, the American people would freak out. To know that the most powerful man in the world can not answer simple direct questions about events that he is supposed to be handling on a day to day basis, and that he is blatently ignorant about his job and duties as commander-in-chief would scare the shit out of most of us. The media has a RESPONSIBILITY to report such a “small” matter. Oh, and watch the Fox news channel for ten minutes and speak about “corrupt” media outlets. This isn’t a liberal or conservative issue, it’s a public issue with serious questions that need to be addressed, period. Maybe Amanda feels happy and safe with a C student that speaks at a sixth grade level running this country, I’m not and I know there are more of you who feel the same way.

  19. T Worthington Says:

    Amanda should realise that the American media (ie, CNN, ABC etc.) are regarded by the rest of the world as being slightly to the right of Ghengis Khan. How anyone could describe them as “Liberal” is beyond me, particularly given the key role they played in quashing an accurate recount and allowing George W Bonzo to rig the election.

  20. pogo Says:

    what would anyone expect from a dope who bought his way through college with straight C’s– after all, anyone one with minus IQ can be president if he has the right parents and enough money and no integrity or sense of ethics.

  21. Anonymous Says:

    George Bush is a wireless puppet.

  22. Sandy Says:


  23. 60 today Says:

    In ‘satirist’ Amanda’s brilliant spoof of the morally bottomfeeding ‘vocabulary’ of BUSH apologists, she’s persuaded ‘me’
    the ‘safety device’ BUSH

  24. 60 today Says:

    In liberal ‘satirist’ Amanda’s brilliant parody of the morally bottomfeeding ‘vocabulary’ of BUSH apologists, she’s never so droll as when infers the ‘safety device’ BUSH would never employ is a BRAIN.

  25. Amanda Says:

    This is why the American Society is so corrupt. Because of people like you who have no support for our President. Do you enjoy constantly bashing our leader? Searching for matters to complain about? This entire issue is unbelievable and has no vivid point. And Fox news channel is the only Rebublican-oriented news out there…the rest are Liberal havens…and you’re a fool if you haven’t figured that out.

  26. Gary Says:

    I am truly amazed that there are “Amandas” out there. During this Presidency I have clearly seen the ineptness…I have clearly seen the hidden agendas….the lies and distortions of our dry-drunk president. It is so very apparent to anyone with an IQ greater than that of a box of unflavored gelatin that the power of the presidency is in the hands of someone entirely inappropriate…or at least it should be obvious. It is as if there are those so “desperate” to believe in Bush that they can no longer reason and choose the insanity that Bush is a viable choice. Mass halucination???

  27. mike Says:

    Amanda, I guarantee, if you had a brain, you’d be dangerous.

  28. dave Says:

    Dear Amanda.It is our duty and right to question authority. The people that hold office are our employ. our taxes pay thier salary. we entrust them with our lives and future. if the jobs too much for them well there is abuot a million people needing a job right now. observing this election has been insulting. bush and his tax cuts are misplaced and buying your vote while increasing debt. nothing is free. nothing. i have grown to see this country grow into a gimme gimme more attitude without wondering where it comes from. the future thats where. a misplaced war. jobs overseas. increase in poverty and healthcare woes. do you think that someone who waves a flag and a bible then preaches freedom only to try and trample the first admendment and divide the people over the very thing that gives them the right to practce what they do. they preach against abortion only to drop bombs on other peoples children based on false claims. they claim a war on terror when it was here all the while in one form or another. the last terrorist act was in oklahoma by an american. did we all live in fear after that? were we made to by our government like we are now? are we reminded day in and day out. you want me to support that. Go take chaneys advice. Go @@## yourself.

  29. jane Q public Says:

    Well, here’s the deal as I see it, Kerry must have known about it, and, being confident in his own debating skills, the only consession he needed was a pen! Bravo Kerry!

    Bush’s puppet strings are frayed and torn and starting to snap!

    Doctored photos my A$$!! I saw it live and assumed it was a protective vest. However, I began to wonder why, with the security at a gathering of that sort, why he would need one??

    It must have been a really heavy, clunky,cheapo model because it made him stoop over all night!
    Note to lackeys–upgrade to include a zapper to reduce frowns and scowls–

    Bye, bye Bushie, the water’s been dumped on you and you are melting, c-ya

  30. Max Says:

    If he was wired to sound more intelligent, I hope he got his money back. Couldn’t someone have at least told him about the “internets?” What a doofus.
    And I believe the media is neither left nor right, but just a bunch of pandering, scared sons of bitches. Coverage today is so skewed to appear “fair” that at the end of a report you walk away with no useful information at all. Just more questions.

  31. Amanda Says:

    Real mature Dave

  32. Popeye Says:

    Everyday as I go about in my routines my truck carries a Veterns For Kerry Sticker on the back windshield. I am constantly bombarded with how awful and unchristian like to support John Kerry.

    Any attempt to get then to really think about the issues appears to be almost hopeless when you are dealing with the mindset of those who have been W’s supporters for any length of time.

    It has been my observation during my life that there is and has always been two trains of thought in regards to power in the world. These two groups have been referred to in the past as Hawks or Doves.

    The hawks have always believed that the way to command leadership in the world is through military might and crushing if possible anthing that is in oposition to their agendas. The doves on the pther hand have leaned more toward leading the world by example and compassion.

    While many of the issues go much deeper than the above short description, the basic differences are as stated.

    The Hawks have always been far more agressive and war like and in some cases have have pushed for even stronger actions that the country was taking at a particular time.

    The Doves on the other hand have followed the idea of diplomacy and persuasion.

    We have been lucky through most of my 65 years to have enough strength in both views to keep an acceptable balance in those thoughts with the exceptions of a few situations.

    With the above thoughts in mind think a bit further and remember the sadness and anger that was spreading across this great country of ours right after 9/11. That is exactly the situation and climate that gives even the most extreme of the Hawks more creditability and the opportunity to sieze more power. That is exactly what happened here following 9/11.

    Now another key part of that one has to consider is the group of people that surrounds our President. If you do a little research, it won’t take you long to discover, if you do not already know, that group of people subscribe to the thinking of that our country is a ruler of the world rather than leader of the it.

    Now with that in mind why does it surprise any of you that they control the direction of this presidency and not W nor the Senate or Congress. So dooes this bit about the ear piece surprise you ? After all W is nothing more than a puppet for the one world order group.

    What does surprise me is that they ever choose him as the man for the republican party in the first place given how stupid the man actually is.

    What angers me the most is that the coniving group that is runing this country today actually think the American citizen is about as dumb as bees wax. It appears they are right for about 50% of this nation, judging from the percentage of those who are staunch Bush supporters.

    My only consolation in regards to those people who are blindly following this lying adminstration is that through the fear they feel since 9/11 has paralized their thinking. Of course this adminstration is certainly building on that fear every chance they get.

    I do widsh that some one with the ability to study and prove the prompting during the debates could and would do it quickly.

    A concerned citizen,


  33. 60 today Says:

    Amanda, if ‘our President’ was prompted during the debate,
    would he still be your choice?

  34. Amanda Says:

    I think that if he was “prompted” I would have a tough time choosing him…but given his opposition…I believe that I would vote for Bush regardless.

  35. arb Says:

    Did everyone else notice that in the first debate, the source for the image of Bush’s bulging backside, that Kerry and Bush shook hands at very beginning? When Kerry shook Bush’s hand, didn’t he put his left hand on Bush’s back? I tried to find that image on various news websites where I’ve seen it tons of times, but couldn’t find it. If something incriminating was concealed on Bush’s back, it seems Bush would have been very careful not to allow that kind of contact, or that Kerry might have noticed something. Has the Kerry campaign weighed in on the “isbushwired” controversy. Don’t get me wrong; I fully believe Bush is the DUMBEST, most dangerous pres. we’ve ever had and his weird hesitations would certainly lend some weight to the prompting scenario, but just wondering why no one’s talking about the fact that Kerry actually had his hand on the presidential back in question. (Not sticking up for Bush – hate the guy….)

  36. The "W" stands for 1 Wattt Says:

    How many times have all of us seen/heard a TV field newsperson talk over his/her newsroom partner? I’ve seen it happen dozens and dozens of times over the years. While the office newsreader is trying to ask a question or say “Hello”, the field correspondent is chattering on, seemingly oblivious to the other speaker.

    Well, now we understand why this happens so frequently.

    While the field correspondent is being fed his lines via an earphone, he cannot hear the office commentator. He is simply in the habit of talking over the voice in his ear.

    This explains why Bush was interrupting the moderator at the debates. He couldn’t discern over whose voice he was speaking. His earphone was very tiny and deeply implanted.

    Bush is only half of an evil genius. The evil half.

    Laura is probably practicing W’s penmanship and composing his “memoirs” right now.

  37. The "W" stands for 1 Wattt Says:

    Maybe I should’ve licensed the phrase, “The ‘W’ stands for 1 Watt”.

    But what the hell.

    Whoever wants to use it has my permission.

  38. worried about our future Says:

    50% of people plan on voting for the crazyest president of america EVER? i hope the polls are wrong! if i was a gambler i would bet that after the elcetion results come in the winner will be kerry by a victory of 99% to 1% for nader and 0% for bush. i think bush is cheating on the polls just like he cheated for the presidency back in 2000. he hasnt done anything good for this country and will never admit a single mistake while being president. well i got news for you bush “nobodys perfect” not even you.

  39. Anonymous Says:

    Although not a US citizen (I am brazilian) I would like to offer you my views on the matter (you are welcome to do likewise abt elections and politicians “down here” anytime).

    Well, politicians are pretty much the same evywhere: Slimy, greedy and power hungry smooth talking rascals. They all come to you smiling, saying they wanna defend you, take care of you, and that sort of BS.

    However, some things abt America today do astound me:

    1) You were treacherously attacked, and suffered a horrible trauma in Sept. 11. But, I´ve read the official version of the attack, and it is SO clear that either Bush & Co. were aware of it beforehand (as FDR back in Pearl Harbour) or else there was such a degree of incompetence in ignoring the warnings from the intelligence community, that these people should be impeached for incapacity. (Not to go into the third possibility, that they were involved in it – too horrifying to contemplate, yet scores of such events in world history everywhere…politicians…)

    2) Still dazed by that monstruous event, you were blitzkrieged into sacrificing much of your democratic rights, and into approving an unheard of military budget of almost 400 BILLION dollars!!! Not only that, you went right on at war with Iraq and Afghanistan – two tyrannical states which deserved no better than being wiped off the Earth, BUT with no PROVEN connection to whoever attacked WTC.

    3) Now, Dubya admits that “Gosh, gee, maybe we were wrong about Iraq´s WMD…but he was an evil guy all the same, so it was the right thing to do…” Doesn´t ANYONE see that your president threw every international convention, and a lot of your country´s credibility through the window? I mean, how can anyone believe in him anymore? What if he starts saying he´s got proof of WMD in Iran?

    4) Worse, he´s got all this “oil industry” connections and oily staff…Condy, Cheney etc. so it´s just coincidence that they invaded an oil-rich, the world´s not THAT gullible.

    So to sum it up, from here it looks as if your admirable nation (and I say that without any irony, you ARE a great country) has fallen for still another (remember Nixon?) disastrous, deceitful, greedy, self-rightist very rightist…PROFESSIONAL POLITICIAN!

    Oh, yes, and what´s this I´ve read that BOTH Bush and Kerry were (are?) part of a…SKULL AND BONES fraternity? GEEEEESSSHHHH! God help you – and us!

    Thank you, and I hope I have not offended anyone…just being frank.

  40. shirley Says:

    I think that I would have “wired” this president, too. He is totally unable to think on his feet, speak or comprehend what is going on around him. How scary…. We must send him back to Crawford, which, incidentally, does not want him, either.

  41. Jan Says:

    It’s frightening that Bush managed to do such a rotten job of debating even WITH voices feeding him answers. UNLESS – what if the illegal transmitting setup malfunctioned? He wouldn’t have been able to call a halt, or a “recess” while his gear was repaired, because he wasn’t supposed to have it in the first place.

    If Shrub did not even try to prepare for the first debate because he knew he had an ace up his sleeve, then the gizmo faded in and out, or was somehow jammed from time to time (wouldn’t it be hilarious if the Kerry team figured out what W was up to and managed to rig an interfering device early on in the evening?) – all of this would easily explain how and why W managed to present himself in an even stupider light than usual. It would explain the long pauses, the stammering to a complete halt, as well as the “let me finish”, and also the times when Shrub looked like he was tottering as if ready to pass out. How pathetic that we are at a spot like this when our nation is at risk of terrorism. How befuddled (brain-dead?) would one have to be to even think there was a comparison between the two candidates?

  42. Mary Says:

    Wow… people always have plenty to say, not all of it neccesarily of any substance or value, just a matter of picking a topic, especially one with more than one potential slant, valid or otherwise. :) No reflection intended upon the validity of the issue at hand, but rather questioning the validity of any number of other issues that address us each day in the oft venomously two-faced, codependent worlds of media and politics.

    Personally, in this country where our freedoms are highly valued enough to come to issue on a daily basis, I’m worried about anyone who wouldn’t want to invest the mental effort to even attempt to examine issues of one’s standard of ethics exercised within our highest levels of authority in this country with a measure of skepticism and a mature effort to resist unsubstantiated bias or pitiable apathy. Apathy or resignation about issues that potentially affect each and every person in an entire country? Yikes… scary.

    Reminds me of a lady I know who has personal leanings that tend to fall within the realm of Republicans, yet she votes Democrat… every time, without fail, regardless of the person or issues, nary a thought to why she votes… simply because her husband is Democrat, and her father voted Democrat. *sigh* I don’t care what she votes, I care that she does it without thought, conviction, or purpose. And I care that she’s not the only one out there. :(

    Yes, the questions raised against Bush of wires or microphones is an issue about the competency and intellectual capacity of the man that – right or wrong – holds the highest office we have, and besides this, it’s an issue that begs the potentially political-career-killing questions “If they are doing this, why?” and “If there’s nothing wrong with it, why do it in a covert manner?” If this supposedly isn’t an important reflection upon the man and his entourage in regards to the implications about his intelligence, and thereby his right to hold a prestigious and financially lucrative office, why hide it?

    A side note about the Hawks and Doves discussion… interesting little thought arose somewhere in the recesses of my head… aren’t various breeds of hawks, as other birds of prey, commonly on the Endangered Species lists? Contrary to the supply of doves, as I’ve heard that pidgeons are essentially the same as doves, and there’s certainly no shortage of pidgeons. Just seems to potentially have an interesting affect if we transfer that detail about actual hawks and doves and apply it to the Hawks and Doves in society. Doves might be the more likely prey, but at least they don’t tend to slaughter each other in the course of their goals. Instead, they may be more likely to invest their energies in quiet but effective contemplation about how the Hawks are faring, and how that might affect the future…. :)

    Have a nice day folks… Hawks and Doves and conspiracies and conflict be damned. :)

  43. ED L Says:

    Amanda, wake up dear. If this was about Kerry, the Republican congress would be meeting in a special session to appoint a special prosecuter to investigate the matter, and if Kerry was at the same time the sitting President, the words “impeachment, impeachment, impeachment” would be flowing from their forked tongues.
    TRUTH, HONESTY, INTEGRITY, NOT CHEATING, that’s what it’s all about Amanda. The Idiot Bush claimed he was going to bring integrity back to the White House. Some job Amanda.
    Fox news is the furthest thing in the world from ‘news’, it’s Fox propoganda. In addition it’s the right wing conservative media, O’Reilly, Rush, etc. etc. etc. that keep saying that the media is liberal in it’s bias, when the FACT IS that me media is strongly conservative and republican in its’ bias. All of those newspapers and broadcasting companies are owned by right wing conservatives Amanda, just LOOK AT THEIR NAMES AND WHO THEY ARE, that’s not a list of liberal democrats, I’ll guarantee you that.
    Your type of blind patriotic follow our leader regardless of anything type of thinking helped keep Hitler in power. It is our duty, our responsibility, as true American patriots to question our leaders, to question the direction they are taking our county, especially when taking it down the road to ruin that the Idiot Bush is traveling on.
    Wake up Amanda. There must be a brain in your head. Try using it. That would be more than that born again moron who is currently sitting in the oval office is doing.

  44. napen Says:

    You guys are retarded. This is the president of our country if you honestly are that dumb to think he would have to wear something that bulky to get help in the debate you are smokin some good stuff. He has access to the most high tech electronics known to man. If you hate Bush thats fine. But dont waste your time makin stuff up just because John Kerry is worthless. ha ha ha well anyways go watch Team America: World Police coming out Oct. 15th is really funny and if you’re not too much of a die hard democrat u might enjoy it.

  45. ED L Says:

    No Napen, you’re the retard. What exactly then IS THAT BOX that is obvious to anyone that isn’t completely blind. Is it the battery pack that keeps the Idiot Bush running and running and running???
    The most high tech electronics known to man STILL requires the power source to be located on his person.
    I’m not a die hard democrat, I am totally independent, and would have no hesitation to vote republican if I agreed with the agenda of the candidate. I voted to Rudi the first time around, not the second, because by that time we who live in NYC where aware of the fact that we were living in somewhat of a police state mentality, but my point is I voted republican and wouldn’t hesitate to do so again.
    No one is ‘making up’ those photos napen…… NO ONE.

  46. Mary Says:

    Actually, Napen, hon, this is not a Republican vs. Democrat issue. It’s not a we’ve-got-nothing-better-to-do-than-hallucinate-conspiracy-theories issue. Truth be told, it’s not even an issue of politics or he-said-she-said.

    This is an issue of having and exercising the freedom to question even the highest levels of authority we have, and having the standard American audacity to expect them to answer truthfully and candidly. It’s an issue of “Here’s something that might be of substance, and they keep getting away with explaining everything away, or ho-humming everything with platitudes and ridicule and empty-handed denial, but we still have a right to call em on it and demand real answers.”

    Of course, we also have the right to brush off what we see or know, accept and believe whatever we’re told, and laugh hollowly at those who have the courage to hold onto their doubts and question. Somehow though, that option seems so lacking just in the candid definition of it.

    It’s as much a Constitutional right to persue the truth, even if we naively want it from the most impotent of our leaders, as it is to toss it all off with a shallow insult and spend one’s evening slugging back a beer and watching something with the depth of “professional wrestling.” :)

    Offhand, I’ve found that it takes much more intelligence, and certainly a bigger investment of effort and chutzpah to contemplate, discuss, debate, and persue endless possibilities, especially when armed with suspicious photos, tape recordings, and witness statements, than it takes for the many poo-pooers to sling childish insults.

  47. ED L Says:

    To you again Napen, just thought I’d add, I also voted for Pataki (a republican) for governor because I thougt he would do a better job than his democratic opponent.

  48. ED L Says:

    Right on Mary!!!

  49. napen Says:

    hahaha get a hobby

  50. Mary Says:

    Oooooh, wow, what a hefty retort! I sincerely hope that you didn’t incur any internal injuries in the effort that it must have taken to come up with such a deep response…. and it only took you 19 minutes! Wow, I’m ~soooo~ impressed! :D

    Now, if you’ll excuse me from this increasingly tenuous pastime… Obviously I’m not the type that often tends to invest an excess of passion on one side of an issue or the other, it’s so much more interesting to observe and contemplate…. life’s so much more interesting with people of both extremes. :)

    Anyway, I guess I’ve said all that I have of value for the moment, and I’m just spent from laughing at shallow folks that try to put in their two cents from a trillion dollar deficit! *LOL* Ta ta! :)

  51. brian in PA Says:

    I don’t watch TV, gave it up about 3-4 years ago simply because I found the media (TV) a poor substitute for the written word. I also believe that ever advance in human society is preceded by an advance in communication…

    I feel a sense of awe to see this discussion flourishing all over the internet. The same discussion, different voices but the same idea.

    I will be totally disillusioned by my fellow Americans if George W. Bush is relected on Nov. 2nd. I hope and pray the media remembers their duty, and do their jobs.

  52. napen Says:

    I dont waste my time thinking deeply when its not required. I am just amused that you take this so seriously. well go watch team america world police oct 15th :) ps it didnt take me that long to respond i was watching television and just thought id look to see how many goobers had responded to my remarks

  53. DB Says:

    If indeed Bush is using a hidden mike to prompt him with facts and names, etc., he is definitely cheating. The RNC should be made to explain what the device is that he had fixed to his back. And, if the RNC or Bush’s staff cannot give a reasonable explanation, the public has no alternative but to believe that Bush was cheating and vote him out of office. This is awful. Something has to be done.

  54. ED L Says:

    The initial White House response regarding the wireless receiver was that the photograph was obviously photoshop altered by some anti Bush liberal. The validity of that response lasted about three minutes, as long as it took to verify that the same image is on the broadcast videos of the ‘debate’.

    The second White House reponse was that it was ‘a fold in the fabric of the suit’, and the validity of that response lasted about as long as it took people to stop laughing at it, and for photo enhancement technology to prove that it was another absurd answer from the White House spokeswoman.

    The third White House response was that it was a bullet proof vest, but as they were announcing that ‘answer’ the Bush/Cheney headquarters was stating that he wasn’t wearing a bullet proof vest, or jacket, or whatever. The end of that ‘answer’.

    The fourth White House response was quite simpley, ‘there is nothing at all there’. Again, that lasted as long as it took for the laughter to die down, and then a reporter asked for “a serious answer” and after a brief hesitation the reply was that the reporter should get in touch with the Bush/Cheney campaign headquarters.

    The presidential spokesman at the White House were apparently running out of ‘answers’ and also were tired of making fools of themselves, and decided that it was time for the Bush/Cheney campaing spin meisters to take a shot at it.

    All they (the campain spin meisters) have managed to come up with is ‘the president wasn’t wearing a wireless receiver’, and we are suppose to accept this on blind faith, just the way we accepted the existence of WMD’s, the idea that the Iraqi people would be throwing roses at their ‘liberaters’, the fact that the insurgency was just a few people and that 95% of the population supported us,the bullshit that the prisoner torture was only a handful of isolated instances, that proposal that the oil exports from Iraq would pay for the rebuilding, that totally false statement that Cheney has no on going financial connections with Haliburton when he in reality gets a check every month and has a huge amount of options he can purchase, that propoganda that the war had nothing to do with oil and that the maps of Iraq that Cheney and the oil companies drew up over a year before the invasion really don’t exist, that the insane tax cuts are really for the middle class, that no child is being left behind, and that Jesus loves George.

    The time for the good faith acceptance of anything that this administration says about anything is long past. Volumes and volumes and volumes have been written about the lies of this administration, not a great deal has been written about their statements of fact and/or truth.

    ‘You can fool some of the people all of the time and those are the ones I have to focus on for my re election, not that I was really elected the first time.’ from the thoughts of George W. Bush

  55. Ron Says:

    Mary certainly can write. Incidentally, she is also right.
    Submitted for your consideration: It is the hubris of men like this that hastens their undoing. They weren’t more careful to hide the thing because they didn’t believe they would get caught. Besides, they believe real American patriots would never doubt their President. Not in wartime.
    If the internet (or either of them) has contributed to the seizure upon this issue and is able now to provoke a “mainstream press” the truth may yet be known. Keep asking questions. Follow the pattern of denials. The more people there are with any actual knowledge of the facts, the greater the chance someone will eventually confess.

  56. Ed Wright Says:

    This revelation has to be the most dastardly trick that has ever benn perpetuated by a person who holds the fate of our nation in his hands. Does he expect to have his wires when he negotiates with our opponents?

  57. ED L Says:

    One last thought because it’s getting late here on the east coast. There is a big problem with the lack of reporting of this matter by the ‘mainstream press’ and I believe it is up to each and every one of us to write to the editors of our newspapers and demand coverage of this entire matter.
    There are millions of people in this country that don’t have computers and internet connections and are not even aware of this debate going on. Please people, write to the editors (I’ve written to TheTimes, The Daily News, The Washington Post ) and intend to write to more editors demanding they respond by front page articles, not page a15 next to the classifieds, and by editorials on their part demanding actual answers from the White House on this entire matter.
    This is so very important. Also, the radio stations, not one single word on 1010 WINS or other ‘all news’ radio stations about any of this. Send e mails to these radio stations asking them what planet they’re covering the news on. Call their news desks and ask them if they might not be missing some of the news. This entire subject matter should be front page news in every newspaper across the country, and we should demand this to be so.

  58. Shane Says:

    Well…are we really surprised? With all the dirty tricks in politics and espeically with this administration (who by the way isn’t really our administration). Dishonesty (used to be called lies)….stealing (thieves, robbers)….cheating……over and over but some of the American (North) people just don’t get it. The reason I put North there is because South Americans and other parts of the world wouldn’t be so blind. We have a wonderful country….let’s try to regain our integrity (which Bush has all of it to hear most people tell it) back as a nation. Born again….well I didn’t realize that born again christians lied so much. I think the Bible says no liar will have any part in Heaven…Oh my!!! I can’t believe it says that…..I wonder what it means. Let’s call it as it is…we need as a nation to wake up and see what is really going on around us. I used to be a Republican but I am ashamed of all of this terrible deceit. God help us all as I don’t think anyone else can.

  59. APE Says:

    This story has legs but they are short and lame. I have heard the story referenced on CNN and other channels many times today but they don’t show the damning photo. Could it be that FOX who owns that footage has refused to allow it to be seen elsewhere? They have shown other stock shots where the ‘square’ is not at all obvious.
    There has to be a way to get THE right photo in front of the public.
    Pressure FOX……………………write, call, Fax.

    Good for us online that we get to see and share whatever we can access among ourselves and our own contacts but the average TV viewer has little choice in what pap they are spoon FED by the media.
    Let’s hear it for the INTERNETs………………LOL Maybe he meant to say INTERnuts?

  60. Scynba Says:

    If you study Bush in the debates when he isn’t speaking, it truly looks as if he is distracted by something other than Kerry. One thing the flake has mastered is his infamous don’t-answer-the-question-asked-just-talk tactic. Something as simple as having them ‘inspected’ for such devices right before they go on the platform might be beneficial… I understand he’s the president, (unfortunately) but this is serious if he’s wearing a listening device. I think the fact that “campaign officials declined to discuss it further because they weren’t certain a bulge even existed and do not want to appear to take seriously what they consider a wild accusation” (‘Bush aides laugh off wired debate rumor’, homepage October 10, 2004)is confirmation of his cheating ways. PLEASE ENCOURAGE EVERYONE YOU KNOW TO GET OUT AND VOTE SO WE CAN GET HIM OUT!

  61. Stephen Says:

    That is buldge at the back of his jacket is definately a wireless backpack reciever for an ear piece. Being a sound engineer for the last 30 years I know em when I see em. The one he was wearing for the 1st debate had to have an additional power supply due to the fact that the 9 volt supply is only good for a about 60 minutes at constant usage. So some wired a 9 volt battery to the reciever unit which was probably attached to his belt. The additional battery could not be placed on the belt because it would cause his pants to fall down so what they did was duct tape it between his shoulder blades. The ear piece was a very small wireless in ear monitor piece. Since they could not use a wired ear piece this in ear monitor’s power supply probably gave up the ghost about 3/4 of the way through the debate. OOPS! They forgot about that. The whole rig must have been uncomfortable to wear a would explain his performance that night. On the second debate they realized that people might catch on so this time they taped the backpack unit between his shoulder blades which is why when his jacket tighten as he leaned forward or put both hand fully extended you see a round outline. Once again it must have been very uncomfortable to wear. The pauses, stops and start’s are the problems with these things. You get so intent listening to the material you forget where you are. It takes alot of practice to adjust to the stupid things. Ask any musician who has switched to in ear monitor’s. It’s the reason that when you go to club and festival concert’s with local groups you still see wedge monitor’s being used. Another drawback to this kind of set up ist that you can have phase cancelling depending on where you stand and the transmitter. So the signal might cut off ocasionally. If any one has a tape of the second debate you might want to scan it and see if at any point in the debate his hand is playing with his ear and then is put in his pocket and then goes back to the ear. If this happened he might of had to switch out the ear piece reciever with a new one as the battery died.

    Being a sound engineer I’ve seen alot of stupid stuff like this when working with performers. Wireless would be great if damm things would work like they are supposed to.

    Dumb, Dumb and Dumber. What do you expect from a rat brain bunch of idiot’s?

  62. Stephen Says:

    Additional note: The picture of him leaving after he get’s pissed off at the Ken Lay question. You can see he’s wearing a belt pack reciever on his belt under his jacket in the middle of his back. These things are so hard to hide. What a joke. I wonder if anybody could scan for the freq’s being used and set up a directional transmitter unit to talk dirty to him. Who know’s maybe the damm thing picks up the Playboy Channel. Can you imagine that? Ohhhhh, AHHHHH, OHHHHH, I’MMMMMM CCCCCCCC… I’ll let you guess the rest.

  63. charles Says:

    Geez, you Americans! Can’t anybody spell? Small wonder you elected a stupid president.

  64. Stephen Says:

    what do you men? what’s wrong with my speling?

  65. Chuck Says:

    see, now that’s my point. It isn’t about your “speling” as such, but it’s about the general lack of stamina, thought discipline and the desire to excel in everything people choose to do. It’s about doing it right and getting it right. America used to care, and now has been sliding away from these positions for some time now. Bush is simply a public display of the poor educational system that has been drifting away from the essence of things.

  66. Jeff Says:

    All presidents pardon their friends. Peace!

  67. Alex Says:

    You people are crazy! The idea of Bush having a wire to talk to some unkown person is nonsense. The mere suggestion of this shows what type of people you are. I mean seriously your candidate is so awful that you have to resort to the means of attempting to make the Republican candidate look worse. America is a nation that allows many freedoms and yes one of those is freedom of speech, but seriously you guys and girls should work on not saying crap because you are insecure of your own candidate. Kerry has his own faults and one of those is saying anything to get support from the American people. If Kerry gets elected, which isn’t going to happen anyways, you guys will all get a rude and sudden awakening as to who the real Kerry is. Then you will find yourselves standing in a bright light of recognition that you were all wrong and stupid to have ever thought that Bush was anything other then the right person to be the president for the next term.

  68. ED L Says:

    Alex, wake up, have a cup of coffee, and then explain to the rest of us exactly what that OBVIOUS DEVICE taped between the Idiot Bush’s shoulder blades is!!!!!! Is it the battery pack that keeps the moron running, and running and running???

  69. Philip Says:

    C’mon guys, ever thought of the possibility that George W could be innocent and incapable of deception, and that the (in)famous bulge was actually just the bunched-up edge of his diaper?

  70. ED L Says:

    Right on Philip.
    The fact is, there is unquestionably something bulging from between his shoulder blades and neither the White House, Bush/Cheney or the RNC has yet to come up with any explanation of what it is, so one has to reach the conclusion that whatever it is must be a bit difficult for them to explain.
    Bush supporters who feel that the rest of us are hallucinating and making up conspiracy theories have not yet answered the question. What is the rectangular shaped bulge (and what appears to be a wire extending from it) taped to the Idiot Bush’s back??????????????????????????????????????????
    You’re silence on this matter is deafening.

  71. Wendy Rosen Says:

    Running for President of the United States is NOT just another
    game show episode of “You Wanna Be A Millionaire”… there aren’t lifeline phone buddies in presidential debates!

    The answer to these important questions are INSIDE you
    not in any earpiece!

    To Bob Schaeffer… It’s up to you, pal.
    Send both candidates through a magnatometer before they
    take to podiums at the next debate!


  72. Charles Says:

    The big questions is what is going to be done to make sure this does not happen again. Maybe Geroge W. will answer this question.

  73. Bob Says:

    I think that John Kerry should open the next debate and announce that he pledges that he is not wired and challenges Bush to the do the same. I wonder how Bush will respond.

  74. ED L Says:

    In THE SECOND DEBATE, at 28 minutes 24-26 seconds, when the Idiot Bush is saying, “…unmanned vehicles that can send real time messages back ta….” it is quite evident that there is a wire under his tie.
    A little while ago, while walking in the streets of NYC, I ran into a friend of mine who is always well informed on the topics of importance in the media, and he had no knowledge what-so-ever that this debate is even going on. He only has internet connections at the university at which he teaches, and depends on the mainstream press for the news.

  75. Hmmmm.... Says:

    If you review the rules for the presidential debates as proposed by the Bush team (posted at )
    you note that on page 17 – section 9(vi), it states:
    (vi) The camera located at the rear of the stage shall be used only to take shots of the moderator.

    Why do you suppose would they write that into the rules????

  76. Jim Says:

    The problem is that oil is about to peak and debt repayment is required or the dollar slips and house prices collapse in the US. A war is a good distraction from the truth and ‘Terror’ is a smoke screen to real problems with the banking system in the US.

  77. michael Says:


    You area lemming!

  78. michael Says:


    You are a lemming!

  79. Cliff Trapp Says:

    Anti-corporate and anti-Bush bigots make a lot of hay out of nothing it seems.

  80. Anon Says:

    There has to be a way to intercept the transmission, or better yet
    jam the radio signal he is recieveing. How about transmitting
    different information on the same frequecy?

  81. JJ Says:

    The thing I find disturbing about the whole “bulge” ordeal is this: We have a president that has built a reputation of being such an idiot, that the idea of him using a hidden prompter in a debate is completely believable. How many presidents have we had that such a story would even be conceivable? With GWB, it is not only believable, it is understandable.

  82. Amanda Says:

    No…I’m not a lemming…I’m a Republican. The only reason you guys want the media to cover this issue is because Kerry is such a poor Democratic candidate…that you have to raise his political stature by finding irrelevant reasons to deride President Bush!

  83. danny boy Says:

    I really want to believe, but as yet I am unconvinced by the photographs. For any of the popular media to give this story anything more than a mention would require substantial evidence. If this story panned out to have some substance it would be devastating for the president, particulary this close to the election. I would assume Americans would be outraged, although there are literally hundreds of legitimate reasons to fire the president and his administration, that have had no effect on the polls. I am afraid that the presidents handlers are too smart to try wiring GWB again for the third debate as I believe it would be easy for any of the media to pick up a radio signal with a scanner or shortwave. On the brighter side if there is any truth to this story and GWB goes to the debate sans wire, Wednesdays debate should be a beautiful thing.

  84. Barb Says:

    Watch the video from the second debate, especially the segment in which Bush is responding to Kerry’s comments on stem cell research. Same square bulge. If it is NOT a device for being fed answers, what is it that it would show up at both debate 1 and debate 2. My guess is it will be gone (moved inside front, or removed altogether) for debate 3. If completely removed, I’m guessing we’ll see a less articulate Bush, and that will speak volumes about whether he was wired in 1 and 2.

  85. Charles Says:

    I’m glad to see the moderator is cleaning up the “speling” before comments are posted.

  86. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Maybe we should have both Kerry and Bush wearing no suits at the last Debates? Leave them with shirts with nothing else, no suits, that way we know for sure Bush is not wearing anything. Why did Bush insisted before the Debates what the Frequency was? And why did the Repulicons insisted on the rules of “no cameras behind their arse?”

    Bush with the obvious box shaped on his back in the First Debate is a Fraud. Plain and simple. Bush is like the Energizer Bunny that requires Batteries to keep going. Didn’t you noticed the repetitive words “It is Hard Work….”? He had said it so many times that you get tired of the words “It is Hard Work?”….and yet in the Second Debate, you had to notice he gained 2 pounds on the Front, I don’t know if he is getting Fat or whatever, but obviously after the First Debate, it is the receiver. And did you notice the different Wordings from the First to the Second? They are not the same, Now it is “You can run, but you cannot hide”….and he had repeated it so many times, because he is still listening in his ear piece! See the connection? If you repeat the words, then you would be still listening in the ear piece to say more comments to the Questions. But you had to notice the pauses, the sighs, the pickings of his faces and ears…I don’t care if he has a ear wax in there, but something to ponder about…I would not want a President that is a Fraud all those four years of his Administration, and do we need another four more years of fraudlent attempts???

  87. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Bush cannot even read, so what do you expect? He would do anything to win, that is–including all of his debates, but now he is hopelessly losing because his hands are caught in the cookie jar!

  88. ED L Says:

    Amanda, you’re back to “no think” again, blaming this on Democrats vs. Republicans. In two of the last three New York City mayorial elections I voted Republican, once for Guiliani and once for Bloomberg, in one of the last two New York State elections for governor I voted Republican. I believe in voting for the person I believe to be the best candidate according to the issues that affect me, not according to political affiliation, which seems to be your problem.

    Look beyond republicans vs democrats vs independents vs green party and stop being blinded by your idiodic party affiliations. George W. Bush is a complete idiot who can’t even admit to having made one single mistake in the past four years.
    Come on now dear, even YOU have to admit that he made at least ONE mistake somewhere along the line, even if you feel the mistake is that he should have dropped more bombs and killed more innocent people, or put our country deeper in debt, or left more children behind by not funding states for education.

    In the eyes of many Americans his biggest mistake was becoming President and taking on a job that he’s not mentally capable of performing. I’m not saying that as a Democrat, I’m saying that as a politically independent voter who isn’t blinded by party loyalty. If Bush was a Democrat my conclusions would be the same.

    History will certainly judge him as the biggest mental misfit to ever occupy the Oval Office. Even the editor of his home town newspaper in Crawford Texas, a man who backed him for president, and backed him in the decisions he made to go to war in Iraq, has turned against him and is voting for Kerry.

    Fortunately for all of us he’s going to be a one term President, and when he is voted out of office the entire world will be cheering and toasting the common sense that has finally taken over in this country of ours. Only twenty two more days and he’ll be packing his presidential souveniers and getting ready to go back to Texas. The reality is that they don’t want him there, either.

  89. Bushinenergizer Says:

    If that was true that Bush was indeed wired for the Debates, I would recommend for all of you to go back to 2000 Election and look up the previous Debates to see whether he was wired too. We were not paying attention on pre-2000 Election year but then we caught him cheating by stealing Florida’s votes. We should look at all the Videos on 2000 Election, if there was indeed a bulge, THEN he has a past tendency to cheat, even at his Yale School, trying to maintain “C” Grade while Drunk and addicted.

    Gee, I wonder if Bush Administration is going to shut this Website soon, because it his tendency to shut down and shut everyone’s mouth, he is not a believer of Freedom of Speech! He even arrested People who wore Anti-Bush T’shirts! Once a Cheater, will ALWAYS a cheater.

    Amanda, I agree with the others, you got to wake up and smell the Coffee, why would you vote Bush regardless? Is that because he is born again Christian that can be allowed to lie and lie because he is capable of forgiveness. Gee, live in the REALITY, not in Fantasy Island like BUSH is thinking of….Bush is constantly out of touch in Reality when it comes to War in Iraq. He don’t know even what is going on down there…and he said in fact “It is even getting better!”

    No duh? We need a President who can think for himself, not some piece of device or his Helpers more like Elves Helpers!!! To do all his dirty tricks, and he said “It is Hard work??” I don’t even think he knows what that really means…

  90. Bushinenergizer Says:

    I was thinking if Bush was capable of rigging the 2004 Election again just like he did on 2000 Election stealing the Votes in Florida. Bush and Repulicons Party even eliminated the Black Voters and the Voters that was freed from Prision off the Florida Registry. Does that tell you that much? Why would the Republicons Party take their names off the Florida Registry and deny them the Voter’s Rights?!

    I tell you why, “It is because Bush wants to ensure his win in Florida- simple as that.”

  91. johnny Says:

    All Bush supporters should be ashamed of themselves as well as their idiot candidate! Kerry has 10X more balls than W ever will and he can windsurf too. Shrub is a gutless dry drunk and I think he should just get some beer and coke and forget about being the next president and go do what hes best at; being f*&^ed up!

  92. Amanda Says:

    you know what…i really don’t believe that president bush has made any mistakes. Being in Iraq is not a mistake. Or do you people think that Saddam slaughtering thousands of people a day is “ok”? We had a right to go to Iraq. You seem to forget that thousands of Americans died just after Bush was elected. That is why our country has suffered for the past 4 years…not because of Bush. He got handed this mess in America…he didn’t start it.

  93. johnny Says:

    Do you beleive in the easter bunny and the tooth fairy also?

  94. Amanda Says:


  95. johnny Says:

    WOOHOO! Amanda, thats the smartest thing I ever read. Thanks for your support!

  96. johnny Says:

    When Iraquis kill Iraquis it is a tragedy. When Iraquis kill Americans it is even worse. Iraquis have killed so many americans lately that I think I’ll flip-flop and say that when Iraquis kill other Iraquis, It’s a “good thing”!

  97. Amanda Says:

    WOOHOO! Johnny, you are the true definition of an american idiot!

  98. vi Says:

    Amanda, wake up you are not using your brain (probably your brain is as tiny as a fish brain no wonder) I agree that Sadam is an evil leader so as hundreds in different nations. How come Bush is not invading these countries that have evil dictator?

  99. johnny Says:

    evil dictators dont like to mess with other evil dictators when they might get their butt whupped

  100. johnny Says:

    Some day we will all probably look back on these days and laugh while bit*%ing about the high taxes

  101. johnny Says:

    I’ve had enough of this crap for one night, think I’ll have one more beer and watch fox news for a little while and get really pissed off before I crash so I can get up in time to look for a real job again

  102. ED L Says:

    Amanda, for the sake of discussion, FORGET ABOUT IRAQ… it is too emotionally charged an issue. Has Bush made any mistakes in anything that he has done that has absolutely nothing to do with Iraq, the war, or terrorists??????

  103. ED L Says:

    By the way Amanda, it has been proven time and again that Saddam had nothing to do with the thousands of Americans that died on 9/11. NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH IT.
    But, again, lets forget about Iraq.
    Has he made any mistakes about dealing with the economy? how about funding education? how about real prescription drug coverage that doesn’t just make billions for the drug companies? how about creating a few jobs other than those at MacDonalds or Walmart? how about spending the surplus and creating a defecit that your grand children will still be paying for? how about tax cuts for the top 5% and pennies for the rest of us? Anything Amanda???
    Any mistakes at all?

  104. johnny Says:

    Is it just me or does Bush act like the true “Yell Leader” that he really is when he blurts out “My opponent can run, but he can’t hide” I wonder why shrub didnt get on the baseball or basketball team? “Yell Leader”, c’mon people, gimme a break, this is America, we can do better than this. really!

  105. mikefictiti0us Says:

    Well, its common knowledge that a great deal of politicians and past Presidents rely on spin doctors to put the squeeze on their opponents.
    This is merely taking it one step further, and I am not surprised that Bush, considering the manner in which he has muddled words in past speeches, and his inability to beat Kerry in the previous debate, would cheat to gain points on Kerry.
    I have little love for John Kerry, though I must admit that he has more charisma and stage presence than Bush.
    I think this stunt, if it is true, shows that Bush is somewhat afraid of Kerry.

    Back on the subject at hand – as the grandson AND son of a tailor I think that it is laughable to expect the public to believe that the mysterious rectangular “bulge” was in fact an error by Bush’s tailor, or that it was caused by Bush “hunching”.
    A cheap, ill fitting suit could bulge in a similar matter, but this is the President, wearing a custom made suit by one of America’s most respected and sought after tailors.

    But whether it is true or not, Bush supporters will claim that this is yet another conspiracy to de-throne Bush, and Kerry supporters will emphatically claim that it WAS a reciever.

  106. Jimbo Says:

    What a shame. George Bush has cheated his way through his entire life, yet there are many who would continue to support him and his (Rove’s?) mistaken policies. The “wired Bush” should be enough to convince anyone but the most loyal party members that the man is not fit to do the job. He is simply too much of a light weight.

  107. v1LLy Says:

    go bush, you know hes gonna win, you all know it MUWAHHHAHAHHAH, he won fair and square in 2000 and hes gonna win in 04, you liberls and all of your contraband and propaganda are just sore loosers and hard headed, get a life becuse your just gonna be loosers again.


  108. danny boy Says:

    I am getting the sneaky suspition that Amanda is the moderator trying to keep the conversation going. Someone with such contrived opinions would never end up on this page nor be interested in opposing views. Amanda apperars to be playing devils advocate.

  109. Sharp Blond Says:

    I work for a telemarketing company taking care of the phone system. The sales department using shadowing ALL THE TIME to help train the new sales employees.

    Basically a new employee gets the right person on the line and then rings a bell for a “closer” to come over. The closer plugs in their headphone into a “Y” adapter on the employee’s phone so they can hear the call. Then the closer tells the sales employee what to say and they repeat it right back to the customer.

    It’s AMAZING to watch them do this. They become puppets only there are no strings. The technique is so easy and so effective, that I can totally believe this is done to Bush.

    I think the only reason why Bush stumbles is because Bush either tries to insert his own words into the dialog or the feeder can’t respond fast enough. Our sales pitch is pretty canned, and the shadow never deviates from the pitch.

  110. Charles Says:

    Bush will win Florida because his brother counts like GW wants him too. Has George W. ever done anything on his own and won fair and square.

  111. Mary Says:

    C’mon folks, from all sides that is. It accomplishes nothing to sling insults, attack chosen posters like Amanda repeatedly, talk pointless trash against this candidate or party or that, and the childish name-calling just tops it! *sigh* I know folks get passionate about things, but all of that behavior simply entrenches people in their positions – whether they’re right or wrong – and it convinces no one since nothing of value can make it through all the static. When our brains set to tune out the clatter, we miss the whispers of reason, and when our minds focus on “hey, he called me a *%$@& !” everything said before and after that disappears into an invisible abyss.

    I am definitely NOT a debater kind of person because I lose all internal cohesion in such a potentially hostile atmosphere where such behavior is commonplace, but when a discussion degrades to insults and name-calling, no one listens, and certainly no one is converted, the only people to hear at that point are the people who already share the viewpoint of the screamer of the moment.

    Ya know what I do notice that I think is important? Here in the posts, in the “answers” that we get from the candidates, in the stilted and limited news coverage… the people who don’t support Bush or our results in Iraq or other results of this presidency, and people who are firm in at least questioning the strange bulges in George’s expensive wardrobe tend to be making consistently direct statements and asking pointed questions… while the people that wish to back Bush and/or slam Kerry fall into what is quickly becoming a discernible pattern – empty denials, no clear, definitive, verifiable answers to those pointed questions, a series of verbal diversion tactics, name-calling and insults and partisan labeling, and changing the subject with every breath to try to throw the naysayers off balance because there are no acceptable answers that aren’t full of holes. Seems to me that this conspicuous pattern coupled with the original issue of wires and earpieces is something valid to focus some attention and energy on, not wasting it in exchanging empty insults and mud slinging with them, because then nobody’s right and everybody gets dirty.

    Love and peace and all that stuff…. now we return you to your regularly scheduled pointless mud slinging. :)

  112. Anonymous Says:


  113. Anon Says:

    I am South African and I think the whole world should decide who is president of the US since he is in essence the leader of the entire world and thus far Americans are too close-minded to realise that their president is %@$ing over the whole world in the process.

  114. Brock Says:

    I second the comments of Mary. The true struggle of America right now is how to quit bashing the other side and get down to business. The press likes to zero in on the blurbs of the extreme on either side and leave common sense twisting in the wind. We are being let down by our own want for new news everyday. Running a country is not inventing a brand new quotable quote each day- it’s about a national and international version of paying the water, gas and electric bill, plus working to truly improve things. Ranting and throwing mud is the governmental/household version of domestic violence. We have a dysfunctional press and political system in other words.

  115. Mary Says:

    Odd… the ways the mind works in the wee hours sometimes… I find myself rather steriley debating the many revolting bodily functions and/or bodily fluids that “Anon” could have intended by use of his tactful expletive…. *snicker*

    Greetings to our contributing counterpart on the opposite quadrant of our shared planet! (never mind, I get a little peculiar/loopy/”wonky” sometimes when I’ve been up far too long) :)

    Regardless of my momentarily questionable state of mind (*giggle*), thank you for some comparitively placid and rational thoughts from beyond our own self-centered borders! You just may have a long overdue and fresh idea, and one that bears some consideration should *they* (the powers that be) ever pull their collective heads from (choose an oriface!) to consider the potential applications of such ideas. :)

    Nighty night all (5 am?!?), a few hours later for me than would have been ideal I’m sure, stayed far too caught up in various research pursuits online tonight. Thank goodness I don’t have to be anywhere this morning, but at least I’m sure in a more pleasant state of mind than some of the folks when they’ve been posting in here! Has anyone else been catching a scent of firey brimstone in this place now and then? *hehe* And as someone’s prolly gonna wonder… no, I’m stone sober, just tired enough to be less conversationally scholarly than earlier. Ta ta! :)

  116. Grey Says:

    Well, I’m also a South African, and I believe that the US is actually on the right course believe it or not. The proof, like with the fight against communism will not be seen in the next 2 or 3 years, but in the next 2 or 3 decades.

    History will be kinder to Bush than his contemporaries.

  117. Alex Says:


    What the heck? The world should not decide who is to be the President of America. That is crazy! I mean that is like saying that America should decide who runs British Parliment or the African tribes. You guys would never stand for that okay. That is just stupid. If the world would like to decide who the president is going to be then you might as well just give yourselves up and become part of the United States of America. Listen to yourself before you say something that senseless.

    Now to the rest of you who are saying that this election does not have to consider the war with Iraq or terrorism or anything like that. Well, I don’t understand you and think that you are living in some kind of fairy world because that seems to be one of the major issues that both candidates are debating on in the Presidential debates. I mean everything revovles around whether or not the American People agree that we should have gone into Iraq or not. It is almost one of the deciding factors in who your are going to vote for.


    I like your comments. I think that a lot of them are very fair and relevant comments. And if you are the moderator then way to go because you have made things pretty dang interesting. Onward and Forward with your messages!

  118. Philip Says:

    OK. It can’t be his tailor’s fault. He’s not packing. It’s not a receiver for his master’s voice. It’s not his battery pack. It’s not even his on/off switch. But c’m on, debate committee. c’mon republican spokespeople…IT MUST BE SOMETHING! It is obviously there! What is it then?

    …or could he just have forgotten to take out the coathanger?

  119. Charles Says:

    Alex, see where you get hostile here? Anon feels this idea, he’s not shoving it down your throat. So why the personal attack and mean words? I’ve had the same idea – since the U.S. impacts the world, we should all vote for the prez. Like all new ideas, it is misperceived and mocked at the beginning. But once an idea catches fire, soon all countries are electing the leader of the world. Think Ancient Rome, where foreigners were given Roman citizenship and allowed access to the Senate and the right to vote. In fact, foreigners became emperors and saved the city from potential destruction.

    OK, let’s hear it Alex. Let’s hear from your belligerent side here: dumb, stupid, senseless, insane, etc etc. Got anything intelligent to say besides, oh yes, spouting irrelevant pseudo-parallels?

  120. Alex Says:

    Hey, who is getting hostile now, Charles?

  121. ED L Says:

    Amanda, I suggested forgetting about Iraq and the war and terrorists for a few minutes to try to clear the table and get you to ADMIT THAT GEORGE BUSH HAS MADE AT LEAST ONE MISTAKE IN THE PAST FOUR YEARS OF HIS ‘LEADERSHIP’.
    Of course I realize that the war and terrorists are of prime importance, but that seems to be the only thing that the Bushies keep bringing up. You STILL AVOID answering my question… Can you name any mistakes he has made? HE CAN’T!!!
    The Idiot Bush was asked in the second debate to name three mistakes he has made, and he can’t come up with anything. This complete inability to review ones actions and admit to even an occasional mistake and then CORRECT IT is an example of the complete weakness of this man. ANYONE holding the office of President of the US for four years HAS TO HAVE COMMITTED A FEW MISTAKES, SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE, AND THE INABILITY TO RECOGNIZE THEM AND CORRECT AT LEAST A FEW OF THEM IS A MAJOR CHARACTER FLAW, and that is the problem with Bush, HE IS THE PERSONIFICATION OF A MAJOR CHARACTER FLAW.

    T v1LLy, your comments are so foolish and simple minded that they don’t even deserve a response.

    As Mary has noted, the Bushies in large numbers resort to name calling and insults in their replies, but never seem to answer serious questions with serious answers. There seems to be a common bond of simple minded fanaticism to many of the Bush supporters.

  122. Joey Says:

    Amanda….the Republican party preys on the ignorance in this country
    and you are a prime example!!!!!!!!!!!

  123. Ponyboy Says:

    Can i just say something please. I am Canadian and obviously my opinion will not matter to most, but come on now people!! Bush wants to spread democracy accross the world which is an excellent idea, but there’s just one problem – America hasn’t figured out democray yet. Your 2000 Florida incident is proof of that. People were denied the right to vote. Gore actually won the popular vote, but because a court says stop counting, Bush wins? Thats democracy? I even heard that there will be outside(UN?)observers watching over the US election this year. How are you supposed to promote an idea when you haven’t even perfected it yet? Oh ya, and of course that’s a battery pack!! Everyone in the world can see that, unless you’re a conservative/republican. Bush is an idiot. (Sorry, I had to slip that one in there!!)

  124. Ralph Says:

    Hi there,

    I am from the “good old! Europe” and the only thing I want to comment on this issue, is that it is a pitty (and quite shocking) that the so called World Leading Nation obviously is not able to make a fair and democratic election. I think, that a country which claims to have the right to judge other countries´ politics and use their financial, intelligence and military power to bring down governments (and you know that USA does that every once in a while…) should first earn this position with own trustfull political leaders and a stable ethical and political situation. How can you spread the word of your way of life, if you deliver so many arguments against it on the other hand?

  125. ED L Says:

    To Ponyboy and Ralph:



  126. piglet Says:

    On the BBC World show Dateline London this past weekend, Adam Raphael, a former journalist for The Economist, one of the world’s most respected business magazines, reminded viewers that if Bush was running for president in any European country at all, he’d get approximately zero per cent of the vote.

    We Brits just look at you Americans in disbelief. If Bush were running to be mayor of a small village here, he’d get no votes – he’s just seen as a totally incompetent idiot. No one as inarticulate as Bush would stand a chance in any municipal election, ever.

    If you guys vote for George a second time, unfortunately international opinion will consider all Americans to be as stupid as he is.

  127. Amanda Says:

    NO…Bush has not made any mistakes. There is no such thing as a “mistake” when you’re the leader of this country. When you make an Executive decision…it’s going to have an outcome. It depends upon who you are and what you think for something to be a mistake. Some people might say…”I don’t think that we should be in Iraq because it’s killing innocent people and the President has made a mistake”…and I respect that because that is an opinion. I’m not trying to say whether your opinions are wrong or right. I’m voiceing my opinion because it’s my right. And if you disagree with me…so be it…because EVERY single person in this country deserves the right to be heard.

    Now you can think that I’m some devil’s advocate…or some dumb Republican trying to get a rise out of you…but I’m not. You can’t KNOW what you believe in…or what you think…until you’ve heard all sides of an issue. And that’s what I’m doing…because if I was an independent voter who wasn’t sure on who I would be voting for…I would want to hear all sides of an issue. SO…that’s what I’m doing…and I respect every opinion…because there is NO wrong or right; it’s in the eye of the beholder.

  128. Ponyboy Says:

    Right on EDL. I hope piglet and I didn’t come off as anti-american or anything, because no doubt America is (was?) the greatest place on the planet. If the Canadian government wanted to spread democracy accross the world, I would give them shit too. I would tell them you can’t impose a way of life on people just because it is our way of life. And our democracy is full of errors too. Anyone who watches Lou Dobbs will know that maybe our form of democracy isn’t the best.

    In theory, democracy is who shouts the loudest. In the U.S., it’s who has the most money.

    Our way of life is slowly deteriorating and yet we in the west want to impose this way of life upon others?

    PS – Poor Amanda, you’ve had a rough day!!

  129. Lp Says:

    damn canadians…we should nuke em’. why is tony blair bush’s buddy…but yet you brits say bush is a ‘totally incompetent idiot’? hmmmmm….

  130. johnny Says:

    YOO HOO! Amanda, you never did reply, other than to insult me, but do you believe in the easter bunny and the tooth fairy also? Reading your posts I would assume you must. I do thank you though for your kind comments regarding Mr. Kerrys talented windsurfing abilities! Now Back to the real subject, that is, the strange looking rectangular lump on Mr. Bushs’ back during the first debate. After reading all these posts I would say its fair to assume that Bush was indeed wired. I don’t know if anyone caught Mr. Bush’s campaign appearance in Ohio back during the summer when he was on his bus tour with Travis Tritt, but if they did I wonder if they wouldn’t agree that Bush seemed as if he was wired up tight with drugs and alcohol that evening. Incidentally, the First Lady was not there with him on the stage with him either. I’d wager she’s seen this sort of thing with hm before and does not approve either. I certainly don’t!
    I think he is a big phony!

  131. ED L Says:

    Amanda, to believe that just because someone is the ‘leader’ of this country and living in the White House absolves him/her/it from making mistakes is the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard in a long, long, long, long time.

    I’ve refrained from calling you names, because it’s obvious that you are sincere in what you are saying, and name calling certainly doesn’t add anything constructive to any situation. It is the Bushies who retort to calling others names and placing labels on things, and all that does is show how ignorent they are.

    However, it is quite difficult not to call someone who sincerely believes that no leader of this country is capable of making mistakes a name or two that isn’t terribly complimentary…. but again, I refrain from doing so. That statement in itself will show people responding to this chain of comments just how foolish you are.

    You are defeating your purpose, because I guarantee you that any undecided voters reading your comments are quickly coming to the conclusions that those who support in Idiot Bush are walking a fine line of being idiots themselves. I seriously doubt that you’ve converted one single person to your way of thinking, but would suspect that you’ve convinced a number of undecided voters that if voting for the Idiot Bush is putting them in your thoughtless camp they’ll most certainly be voting for Kerry.

    Keep up the good work Amanda, every vote for Kerry will help free this country and the world from THE MISTAKES that the Idiot Bush has created.

  132. johnny Says:

    My guess is that Amanda is really Ann Coulter, posting in disguise!

  133. european Says:

    Yo piglet, remember Chirac and Berlusconi? They are actually real criminals, and not just “criminals” like some would have it that Bush, Blair, etc are. How smart are European voters really? Or Yugoslavia. Milosevic?! Come on. And lets see, Austria elected that nazi WW2 war criminal some time in the 80’s. And then rebounded with Jorg Haider a bit later.And you may want to note that I have not even touched upon Eastern European politics yet. How about Yeltsin – smart, dumb, drunk? And then – Putin. Some people say fraud, but the fact is, people in Russia like/love him. They think he is great. At least he is better than any previous ruler in Russia/Soviet Union…

    Oh, but I forgot. The French were just unlucky with their voting system, and the Italians, well they dont really count, except when we can eat there parmesan. And then the Russians, well guess what, they dont count either! Nor do the Yugoslavs, because, well, just because! In fact, in any comparison between the US and Europe, we can pick the best of Europe (and politically I hold the UK in high regard) and compare it with its average or aggregate US counterpart.
    It is so tiring…
    Take any of the European leaders named above and tell me they would have won a US presidential election. Blair perhaps. Maybe Berlusconi IF he had been completed devoid of any criminal record, and that is a pretty big if. So, do Americans look at Europeans in “disbelief”? You bloggers tell me. My guess is most of you don’t care, just like Europeans don’t really care if Arabs or Africans elect idiots (or dont elect at all). Because over here in the European colonies, we only care/read about the US. It is embarrasing.

  134. Amanda Says:

    I did not say that no leader is capable of making mistakes. I said it depends on how you look upon the situation. Excuse me…but you say that “It is the Bushies who retort to calling others names and placing labels on things”?

    -President is a puppet
    -George W Bonzo
    -Jesus loves George
    -rat brain bunch of idiot’s
    -battery pack that keeps the moron running
    -taped to the Idiot Bush’s back
    -Bush is an idiot
    -Shrub is a gutless dry drunk
    -Bush cannot even read
    -I think he should just get some beer and coke and forget about being the next president and go do what hes best at; being f*&^ed up!
    – wonder why shrub didnt get on the baseball or basketball team
    -I think he is a big phony
    -dry-drunk president
    -Go take chaneys advice. Go @@## yourself.
    -The Shrub
    -C student that speaks at a sixth grade level

    now…these are some comments that are just so intelligent and they really do get the point through! don’t you think! Or do i need to use some profanities to let it sink in to your thick heads. BUT…WAIT….HOLD ON…..ACCORDING TO YOU GUYS…”It is the Bushies who retort to calling others names and placing labels on things”….wow… got me!

  135. johnny Says:

    Did anyone catch the report where the First Lady was giving a stump speech when and the bushies security forces were breeched by a greiving mother of a soldier recently killed in Iraq. The poor mother tried to ask the First Lady a question about why her son died, and was hauled off in irons for it. Afterwards the First Lady was kind enough to remark that “the woman was obviously mentally ill”. That sort of thing speaks volumes for the Bush mentality and it looks like they’re digging their own graves with it. All name calling aside when these things get around they do open alot of eyes. No need to insult or cajole these people, just give them enough rope, and well you know the rest….

  136. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Amanda, are you saying that Bush is not capable of making mistakes?! What is he? Not human or human? Everybody knows well enough that one person can make mistakes ONCE in their Lives…and learn from it.
    Surely Amanda, You’ve made a mistake ONCE in your life, is that correct?!
    If your response is NO, then you must be living in Dream Land beside the Lord Jesus the Righteous Bush himself. It is hard to believe when a perfect man is not capable of making mistakes. Surely Bush had made some mistakes in Office, look at all the programs- surely the Surplus fell into the Deficit, that is a MISTAKE!!! Are you saying that is not a mistake??? You would rather spend money whereas your Grandchildren would pay high taxes on the debt? You are dreaming, my dear….I can see Bush and you are both alike, I can see it.

    I agree with EDL that Bush could not comment on the three Mistakes he had made during the four years, and could not make up even one….just plain ol’ Iraq…(Gee, that is Bush ever talks about these days- Iraq this and Iraq that). It must have been a sheer obession of his. All the Supporters of Bush are too mesmerized with Bush because he is too perfect of a Man. (gee that sounds like a Counry song). ; You are too much in Denial, my dear…and cannot admit it.

    Johnny: I saw the news of Laura Bush when they hauled that poor woman of her dead son away in Jail and Laura does not have a decent heart about this poor Mother in grief and labelling her as Mentally Ill…I don’t think it is right to throw her in Jail. She just wanted to ask a question to Laura was this: “Why are the Senators and Congressman’s Sons or Daughters are not serving in Iraq?” They all stayed home. THAT is something to ponder about. They are going through all the red tape to keep their Children home.

    That is something Bush would avoid and keep on avoiding questions such as these…(mistakes, and Iraq). I am getting tired of his repetitive War in Iraq- this and that…is that he all will talk about in the next four more years? My ears may just fall off and die of exposure.

  137. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Just think about this for a second…We HAD Bin Laden in the corner at Tora Bora, Afghanistan….and yet we left Afghanistan in a hurry to drive over to Iraq. Bin Laden had escaped. I thought that was the prime reason for going to War in Afghanistan for 9/11 tradegy.

    Now, being in Iraq to go after Saddam Hussien, why? Just because of his refusal to search the WMD’s???? Remember the report said THERE ARE NO WMDS in Iraq! But yet they caught Saddam Hussien, horrah….it was the obession of Bush’s to really catch Saddam Hussien, because of the attempt assinination on his Father Bush Senior. (He tried to kill my dad…I will go get him…). Does that make sense?!

    Another question being asked why Bush did not catch Bin Laden to start out with…he could not come up with a definite answer. He keeps on going back to Iraq and Saddam (what is that all about?)…and yet slipped a word saying that Saddam attacked us…which Saddam Hussien DID NOT do so on 9/11. Saddam has no connection WHATSOVER on 9/11 tradegy. Now, after knowing there are no WMD’s in Iraq, and the war is still going on in Iraq??? It should be over now since there are no WMD’s in there…shoud go back home. OH yes, excuse me, Bush opened a can of Worms!!! All the Terrorists and Fighters are pouring into Iraq through the borders by the THOUSANDS!!!! Now that is another reason for Bush to stay the War in Iraq. There are several reasons for going into Iraq and since everything had failed, he had to go on this one….which is oh yes by the way, the Terrorists are in there and we have to take care of it. This is a never ending war that Bush had opened….for everyone to come to Arms and it will be an UGLY War for Years and Years to come….Come on think about this for a Second…if you keep quiet, then everybody will be sleeping…if you wake up everybody, and surely it will come to Chaos in this World. Bush had woken up everybody. And Bush also said “it is never better in Iraq…”. Better??? How???? YOU TELL ME!

  138. Joey Says:

    Amanda…would you answer a question for me please? Do you think George W. Bush is president because of his intelligence?

  139. Bushinenergizer Says:

    I had a friend just like Amanda, and she would vote for Bush regardless too. I asked her why? She said it is because Bush is born again Christian and she is Christian her self…She thinks Bush is like the next Jesus, a saviour…and do agree that War in Iraq is justified.

    Gee, is that the only reason to vote for Bush beside his stupid brains?? I questioned her about the programs that are missing the funds such as Education (she has children herself), Jobs, Prescription, Health Care, etc..etc..She said Iraq is of importance and these programs aren’t. I told her that the No Left Behind Child Act was not funded properly because they had stopped the Fundings to divert into War in Iraq. She did not believe me. She said that Bush would not do that for Children who deserve an Education. And in addition to Health Care and Prescription, her Dad is very Old and very sick and need prescriptions, and she said that her Dad could not afford the Prescriptions and the Health Care, I told her it was all Bush’s doing…cutting fundings and divert into Iraq…American Senior Citizens had the highest bill in Prescriptions and could not afford it. They had to sell Car or their house…etc..etc…I told her all about that…She said she don’t care, but still vote for Bush.

    I was thinking I think Bush had hooked all the Christian Voters no matter what, he had some kind of subliminal message to them, like they were hynotized into voting for Bush regardless. I don’t understand that…Surely I know a vast majority that are not Christian can see right through Bush and know well enough that Bush is not a very smart cookie when it comes to Programs in America. Remember the Wealthiest 2 % that would get tax cuts only, but not the Middle Class or the Poor People, they get almost nothing at all…Why is Bush doing protecting the Rich??? Bush don’t care about the poor / Middle Class Citizens because he think they are dirty and worthless (don’t have lots of money to pour profits into “Fake” Bush Companies such as Enron, Halliburton, whatever you call them).

    Something to think about. Surely Amanada, You need something out of those programs, how about your Health Care? How was it? Can you afford it? If you go to College/University- can you afford it? Did you get Tax Rebates every year? How much? (pretty low I ll bet) Most get at least $200 to $1000. Most of the Wealthiest gets at least $10,000 or over in Tax cuts…so they are actually profiting than they are paying out.

  140. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Opps, I am not answering to a direct question (must be off topic!)…LOL Anyways to answer the direct question above (the real one Amanda). “Is Bush Wired”?

    My answer is yes, he was and has been for years and years…he was dyslexic…and holds a “C” Average. Surely the Box Shaped is a receiver, because do the math…(no it is not fuzzy math sorry folks) it has simple four corners- a recantangle actually…He cheated in the Debates with the intelligent answers…Surely he cannot do everything on his own. If you don’t believe me, then ask him to strip off the suit and the tie…and we will shall see for ourselves.

    MMMM Birthday Suit kind of Debate….that would be Interesting to watch!!!! LOL LOL LOL

  141. ED L Says:

    AMANDA, I don’t want this to sound as if I’m picking on you, because I’m really not. I’m addressing the things that I’ve been posting to any and all Bush supporters. I’m sure if we were to sit down and have a cup of coffee together and not discuss politics or the election or the war that we could get along with no problem. I respect your right to state your oppinions as you respect mine. You sound sincere in your misguided arguments. Regarding you last post, those statements are almost 100 percent aimed at Bush himself, not at his supporters. The Bushies love to call Kerry supporters all kinds of names…THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE. Now with that said….

    As I’ve posted previously, I live in NYC, and I’ve voted BOTH republican and democrat in recent elections. Living in NYC means that I have friends who died in 9/11, four to be exact. I have spent the past few hours getting in touch with the families of these four people. I spoke with one husband, one wife, two parents, and one brother of people who lost their lives in the WTC attack.

    I asked them if in their oppinion Bush has made any mistakes since 9/11. Five out of five without any hesitation what-so-ever said “YES”. The common mistake that they felt he made was ATTACKING IRAQ, when the culprit was hiding out in AFGHANASTAN. Three of them feel that the attack on Iraq had much more to do with a combination of oil interests, control of that part of the world, and Bush’s ego, rather than with retaliation against the terrorists who in fact actually attacked the WTC and killed their family members.

    Two of the relatives did feel that since he attacked Iraq he should have done a better job of it before declaring ‘MISSION ACCOMPLISHED’ and that in fact, perhaps he should actually have accomplished the mission before announcing it had been done.

    All five relatives were in common agreement that he rushed into the war without the proper preperations to win the peace. Three of the five felt that he never should have attacked Iraq, at least not until AFTER BIN LADEN AND CREW WERE CAPTURED OR KILLED.

    Three of them are voting for Kerry, one for Bush, and one was still undecided and leaning toward not voting at all, but seemed to know deep down inside that she would make up her mind and vote for someone. I think she was leaning toward Bush, but the dishonesty of this wireless prompt was changing her mind toward Kerry.

    Personally Amanda, I felt that we had to take an offensive stance against the terrorists after 9/11 and in fact even said to my mother and sister that perhaps Bush was the right person to be in the White House at that time. But the Idiot Bush screwed it all up and managed to attack the WRONG PEOPLE, and did it with a complete lack of preperation as well as for stated reasons which have proved 110% incorrect.

    Furthermore, I think that ALL TERRORISTS should be hung by their balls from lamp posts and street signs in Times Square for the rest of the world to see, and that their dead bodies should be bathed in pigs blood for a period of not less than 24 hours before being returned to their families. You see, the bathing in pigs blood would TERRORIZE THE TERRORISTS, for they believe that under those conditions of their remains being bathed in pigs blood good old Allah isn’t going to be there to greet them at the pearly gates of Heaven, and I FULLY BELIEVE THAT WE SHOULD INDEED TERRORIZE THE BASTARDS.

    I would gladly and without hesitation personally kill any convicted terrorist with my own two bare hands. I wouldn’t give it a second thought Amanda, not for a moment. In fact I would do it as slowly and painfully as I could, extending their agony to the absolute limits of human endurance, and I’d be smiling the whole and entire time.

    However, none of that changes THE FACT that George W. Bush is a complete and total misfit. A dry alcoholic who is still obviously in need of a good stiff drink more than every once in a while, who not only talks to God, but hears God talking back to him and hears God telling him what to do is not exactly my idea of the most competent leader of this country of ours. He can have all of the conversations with God that he wants to have, but let them occur in his barn or his bathroom in Crawford Texas, not in the Oval Office of the White House.

    By the way, how many bombs exactly would Jesus drop of Iraq??? How many innocent people would Jesus kill, injure, or maime??? My point being that Bush’s born again rhetoric is certainly quite selective in its’ actions. It takes more than saying you’re ‘born again’ and praying with the likes of Billy Graham to REALLY BE a Christian in ones beliefs and daily actions. For all of you right wing religious born again fanatics, I’ve got news for you, JESUS DOESN’T LOVE GEORGE.

    I pray, I pray every night to the God I believe in that the Idiot Bush and his neocon fascist followers (that doesn’t include everyone who voted for him) soon become nothing more than a nightmare of the past, and that the Idiot Bush spends the rest of his life not leaving the confines of his ranch in Crawford.

    Now it’s on to watching the Yankees beat the Red Sox in game one of the AL championship before continuing on to win yet another World Series Championship.

  142. Amanda Says:


    …”Come on think about this for a Second…if you keep quiet, then everybody will be sleeping…if you wake up everybody, and surely it will come to Chaos in this World”….Bushinenergizer…come on…think about this…people were getting slaughtered by the THOUSANDS…women were shunned in society with no self-worth…there was no stable government…no sanity…NOTHING….BUT WAIT…let’s keep quiet so they can suffer in silence. Let’s watch as people are beheaded and slaughtered in the blood-covered streets. Let’s make SURE that we don’t do ANYTHING. YOU TELL THAT TO TO THE FREE IRAQIS NOW.


    He has done as much as humanly possible for our country…he is a human being…just like you and me. And yes…I do believe that President Bush is in office because he is an intelligent man with traits of a good leader. You don’t know him…I don’t know him…how can you be so darn quick to judge? Just because he’s from Texas he’s dumb? Come on people…..THINK! And how dare you judge me by my opinions. Maybe YOU think that Kerry’s going to blow this election away…well…think again. Even though you’re too ignorant to know it…but this’ll be a very close election. But I know that at least half of this nation knows the dire consequences that would be suffered if Bush doesn’t pull away with this….even though you think this nation has a very small amount of ignorant republicans….the truth is…it’s full of VERY intelligent people who just don’t open their big mouths all the time….unlike the rest of them who’s world revolves (or they think it does) around their microscopic group of anti-american loudmouths.

  143. Amanda Says:

    By the way…I’m not a Christian…and how dare you back your opinions by targeting religious groups.

  144. Amanda Says:

    I’m a Christian…sorry….typo….lol

  145. ED L Says:

    Amanda, it isn’t the Iraq war that wiped out the largest surplus in US history, it was the ridiculous tax cuts to his wealthy supporters. The war only cost 120 Billion, he wasted a 600 Billion surplus and has put us an addition 450 billion in debt.

    Blaming the defecit on the war is kinda fuzzy math dear, but that’s something Bush is known for.

    Furthermore, the women of Iraq aren’t walking around the streets with their faces uncovered, they’re too scared of getting killed in the insurrection to even go out into the streets.

    Iraq is coming closer and closer to being engulfed in civil war, and according to a Wall Street Journal female reporter who has been living in Iraq, in an email she sent to her friends and which you can find circulating on the internet I believe at you’ll discover that most Iraqi’s prefer what they were living under before the invasion versus what they are living under today.
    If that’s not the right URL and you want to read the letter I’ll track it down for you. Her email wasn’t meant for the public, but her friends posted it, and as a result she has been fired for telling the truth about the current unliveable conditions that Bush has created in that country.

    All of those happy Iraqi’s aren’t exactly throwing roses at or having dinner parties for our troops. You’re living in Bush’s fantasy world picture of what’s going on in Iraq. The Iraqi people who are shooting at and blowing up their ‘liberators’ are living in the real Iraq.

  146. ED L Says:

    One last comment about Bush’s intelligence. It is public record information that Bush can’t hide. When he took his Texas Air National Guard exam back in the 60’s he scored 25 points out of a possible 100 point score. If he had scored 24 points he would have been officially classified as “TOO DUMB TO LEARN HOW TO FLY” and those records are something that have been released under the freedom of information act, and Bush can no longer hide it. “TOO DUMB TO LEARN HOW TO FLY” would also seem to insinuate “TOO DUMB TO BE PRESIDENT” but maybe I’m wrong about that…. ha ha.

  147. Amanda Says:

    When you say “All of those happy Iraqi’s aren’t exactly throwing roses at or having dinner parties for our troops”…you only represent a majority. There are groups of Iraqis that are very supportive towards our troops. Again…that’s the problem with the media…they ONLY show the horrible images and they broadcast the negative news…have you noticed they never say anything positive about the Iraqi war? And I’m not stupid…I know that there are many rebel groups that are violent and still causing difficulty, BUT there is success in Iraq..even though the media has yet to cover that. I’m talking about the slow, but rapidly growing, freedom among a mid-sized majority of the Iraqi people, and when I imply that the women have freedom…i mean the small majority…that have taken the risk. I’m sure that there are women that are still convinced there are dangers…but that’s why we’re in Iraq…to liberate.

  148. Ponyboy Says:

    Maybe Bush really isn’t human, and therefore unable to make mistakes. Afterall, apparently he runs on batteries. Wait thats it! Someone needs to recharge that idiots batteries.

    Here’s a question I need answered about Bush:

    How can George Bush suck sooo much cock, but at the same time hate homosexuals?

  149. Ponyboy Says:

    HEY EDL!!!!

    I figured it out man!

    God talks to Bush through that ear piece he’s been seen wearing.

  150. ED L Says:

    I have to get back to cheering the Yankees on, but one other thing regarding Bush’s military ‘service’. A group called “Texans For Truth” has offered a cash reward of the amount of $50,000 to anyone who can prove that GEORGE W. BUSH FULFILLED HIS MILITARY OBLIGATION IN THE NATIONAL GUARD.

    The ONLY record of him having reported for duty in Alabama (I think it was Alabama that he transferred to from Texas, maybe Georgia) was a dental record in which he apparently had two cavities filled. Not one of the 800 people who were on the base at the time and are still alive have any recollection of ever seeing him, his face doesn’t exist in any of the photographs taken of his unit during the two years he was suppose to be there, and certainly if there was any evidence what-so-ever that he had fulfilled his military obligation someone would come up with it for the 50 grand.

    This offer was made weeks ago, and still no one showing up with confirmation.
    As much as I hate him, if I had records that could confirm his service I would show up with it for the $50,000 and put my anger aside.

  151. ED L Says:

    Amanda, get serious, the news reporters in Iraq are under the complete control of the US Forces and are not telling the whole truth about the ATROCITIES. The news from Iraq is certainly not bias toward only showing the wrong things, it’s much the opposite. The female reporter from The Wall Street Journal GOT FIRED for TELLING THE TRUTH ABOUT THE HORRIBLE CONDITIONS THAT CURRENTLY EXIST THERE!!!

    It’s only a matter of a short period of time that the entire country will be engulfed in a civil war, but I guess when you start reading about that you’ll decide that it’s really a distortion and that everyone in the country is happy about being ‘liberated’, because that’s what the official Bush spin will be if the Idiot Bush is still in office when the civil war begins.

  152. Gel Says:

    You guys have WAY too much time on your hands…

    I don’t believe Bush had any wiring stuck to him…answer me this:

    -if this is a WIRELESS earpiece in his ear…whats the point of having a wire travel up his back?!! wheres it going?!! makes no sense whatsoever.

    -if he did have wiring, don’t you think the PRESIDENT of the United States could have gotten some top notch debater to be his shadower? Yeah, thats what I thought.

    I am non-party affiliated, and pretty much vote on who I think is best for the job. Yes, we all know that Bush isn’t the best speaker in the world, and he’s dyslexic. Honestly, if Bush had someone talking to him through a little earpiece, he would’ve blown Kerry out of the water…Bush would’ve won both debates! And you and I both know that Bush didn’t shine that much in either of them. I admit Kerry won the first one, and they tied for the 2nd debate. Bush would’ve kicked Kerry a$$ if he had someone talking to him through an earpiece. C’mon people. Don’t be that ignorant. You know it and I know it, that his debates weren’t “mind-boggling” both times. They were just…regular Bush.

    And for those of you who are Pro-Kerry, you seem to forget that there is also a little “rumor” and questioning going around about Johnny…that he pulled a paper out of his jacket pocket when he reached the podium…it was clear and obvious on video!! You guys are seeing a freaking line or “bulge” on a jacket and are suspecting things…while Kerry actually did a visually-proofed action…yet you guys brush it off. Interesting. Haven’t you ever worn something that got funky creases or a bulge? I think you guys are jumping to conclusions that are so out-of-this world that it’s pathetic. If it were between wires and a bullet-proof vest, I’d go with the vest. Bush’s debate presentations weren’t anything special, so I can’t see why you believe he had an earpiece. I can understang the vest though, seeing that many people believe he’s really screwed up with the whole Iraq thing…but whatever.

    My question is…if you were the President, and terrorists bombed and threatened the crap out of your country, how would you react on the spur of the moment? I would defend my country and hunt down *any* threats to the US and take care of them, even if they weren’t involved in the 9/11 event directly…threats to our country includes Iraq, and I’ll leave it at that, and say that I feel Bush acted properly.

    Anyways, I will close in saying that you guys have too much time worrying about if someone who still didn’t talk that great in the past 2 debates was wearing a “secret microphone”…please, I ask all of you to at least focus on something more important and worthwhile…like how the country can expect Kerry to make decisions or get anything done as President, when he can’t even make up his mind during campaigns. ;) I think our flip-flopping candidate, only states “opinions” to please the people of the country, and that scares me. And for whoever said Kerry is “tougher” than Bush, than explain to me why Mr. Kerry left Vietnam with an injury in the rice fields, which ended up being just a minor cut. Haha…oh yeah, he’s real tough!

    Goodbye all and may God help all of you!


  153. Nolan Smith Says:

    If Bush used a devise to help him with his answers then we haven’t heard the real Bush. How can we vote for him? This is about as low as it gets. Forget about “file-gate” or “travel-gate” or lying about an extramarrital affair. This tops all that! This should no doubt be the story of the decade. Why have we not heard much about this in the news?

  154. Ponyboy Says:

    Ahh Gel…

    You’re just another victim.

    Hack Kerry’s proven vietnam credentials while Bush used Daddy’s connections to keep him state side, and then apparently couldn’t even fulfill that requirement. I look for honestly in a leader first, then dimplomacy skills, then toughness.

  155. Gel Says:


    You look for “honesty” in a leader first?…And you’re voting for KERRY? Man, what an oxymoron!!

    You think with all his flip-flopping that he’s been honest? HAHAHAHA!

    Honestly, I don’t care who’s been in the military or not. I don’t feel that has anything to do if they can run a country well or not.

    I’d prefer someone who can make up their mind and get things done! Tell me if you can prove Kerry can do either of those lol.

  156. Brazilian Says:

    Hello ladies n gentlemen!

    I would just like to state my satisfaction upon seeing how many americans (and some other nationalities as well) are aware of the disastrous administration of George W., the petty, bigoted, little would-be dictator who is doing incalculable damage to America´s credibility, to the environment, to world peace AND to your budget! (Not to forget the thousands of innocent people bombed AND the hundreds of your own idealistic soldiers dying for so many lies)

    You rekindle my hopes that America – a country I admire – will return to the path of true democracy and freedom for everyone. Questioning, doubting, crosschecking, looking for what´s out there – and what is missing – THAT is the gist of democracy.

    Tyrannies love the meek, believing, gullible masses.

    Of course, there are some such as well (Amanda et al) but it is their right to do so, no matter how regrettable. Maybe in time…

    My warm regards to all of you who are on the lookout for honesty in politics!

  157. ED L Says:

    First to Brazilian, thanks for your rational input.
    Second to Gel, it’s not a wireless EARPIECE, it’s a wireless RECEIVER. If the earpiece was wireless the information it was receiving from the receiver could be picked up by anyone in the room who had anything even resembling a cell phone operating on the same frequency as the receiver… kind of sixth grade electronics there Gel.
    Also, it is very difficult to remain focused on the prompt and to repeat it clearly because of a number of reasons, from the fading in and out of the prompt, to the delay necessary between hearing it and speaking it while trying to make believe you’re not listening to anything. Ask anyone who has used a prompting device, for many reasons even under ideal ‘conditions’ it is a very difficult thing to pull off smoothly, and the Idiot Bush was far from under ideal ‘conditions’.
    And finally to Amanda, this is going to be my last post for a few days as other things such as winning some money at the race track are on my schedule, but please read this one carefully dear.

    NOTES FROM “A Baghdad Reporter’s Email Causes Controversy” Oct. 9, 2004 taken from the VERMONT GUARDIAN (all a direct quote)

    “As the Bush administration struggles to win the battle of perceptions at home concerning what is happening in Iraq, facts on the ground become more and more difficult to suppress or ignore. One major reason is the Internet, where information not yet acknowledged by mainstream news outlets can circulate globally and influence opinion despite efforts to deride its credibility.

    In late September Wall Street Journal staffer Farnaz Fassihi wrote an e-mail to friends back in the United States about what she was seeing. “Being a foreign correspondent in Baghdad these days is like being under house arrest,” it began, then went on to describe the country wide scale of insurgency and what Iraqis think about it. “Iraq’s once highly fragmented insurgent groups are increasingly cooperating to attack U.S. government and Iraqi government targets, and steadily gaining control of more areas of the country.” But her e-mail went further. “One could argue that Iraq is already lost beyond salvation,” she wrote. “For those of us on the ground it’s hard to imagine what if anything could salvage it from its violent downward spiral.”
    She continues, “I avoid going to people’s homes and never walk in the streets,” she explained. “I can’t go grocery shopping any more, can’t eat in restaurants, can’t strike a conversation with strangers, can’t look for stories, can’t drive in any thing but a full armored car, can’t go to scenes of breaking news stories, can’t be stuck in traffic, can’t speak English outside, can’t take a road trip, can’t say I’m an American, can’t linger at checkpoints, can’t be curious about what people are saying, doing, feeling.”

    In one four-day period she reported, 110 people died and more than 300 were injured in Baghdad alone. The numbers are so shocking, she explained, that the Ministry of Health has stopped disclosing them. Insurgents attack U.S. forces and workers 87 times a day, she claimed. This insurgency “is growing stronger, organized and more sophisticated every day,” she continued.

    In one of many uncomfortable developments the U.S. administration would prefer to leave unpublished, Army Reserve Staff Sgt. Al Lorentz found out after writing an article that criticized the occupation for an anti-war website, His assessment contained no classified information, but did lead him to conclude that “we cannot win here for a number of reasons. Ideology and idealism will never trump history or reality.” The 20 years army veteran, currently serving in Iraq, now faces up to 20 years in prison for “disloyalty and insubordination.”

    According to the Washington Post, the administration is determined to “curtail distribution” of reports that show the situation growing worse.

    Of the elections, she (Fassihi) said half the country remains a “no-go zone,” out of the hands of the U.S. or Iraqi forces and beyond the reach of journalists. “In the other half, the disenchanted population is too terrified to show up at polling stations. The Sunnis have already said they’d boycott elections, leaving the stage open for a polarized government of Kurds and Shiites that will not be deemed legitimate and will most certainly lead to civil war.” Asked whether he planned to vote, one 28 year old engineer replied, “Go and vote and risk being blown into pieces or followed by the insurgents and murdered for cooperating with the Americans? For what? To practice democracy? Are you joking?”

    Such observations contrast sharply with President Bush’s insistence that steady progress is being made, and also with Democratic challenger John Kerry’s assertion that the war can be won with a fresh strategy and a broader coalition. But fortunately for both of them, if not for the general public, Fassihi’s troubling description has not made it into leading daily papers or onto U.S. television news.

    Like others who have questioned the fundamental assumptions of this intervention, Fassihi may be guilty of excessive candor. “Iraqis say that thanks to America they got freedom in exchange for insecurity,” she explained in her now legendary missive. “Guess what? They say they’d take security over freedom any day, even if it means having a dictator ruler.” Then she added a punch line sure to spark days of Crossfire-style arguments if it ever gets the exposure it deserves: “I heard an educated Iraqi say today that if Saddam Hussein were allowed to run for elections he would get the majority of the vote.”


    Wishing all pleasant dreams and a good tomorrow.

    “All of Roves forces and all of Roves men couldn’t put Bush back together again.”

  158. Anon Says:

    The south african who dont like bush again …. democracy cant be forced it should be brought about by the people of a country themselves. What makes people right across the world now “hate” americans despite the fact of the horrible 9/11 is that their president is going around the world democracising everybody —- but is it for a noble and good reason? NO!!!!!! Any idiot can see it and Amanda, you are just blind … shame.

  159. cjrhmh Says:

    The Republican Party has been taken over by fascist neo-conservatives and the majority of Republican Americans don’t realize that the Party they have supported all their lives, the candidates they have supported, and the ideals they support as Republicans have nothing to do with the powers in Washington now.

    Republicans and Democrats are both Americans with American values: remember what those are? Liberty, truth, integrity, freedom, fairness, justice. The new neo-conservative party (masquerading as the Republicans) has a completely different set of values and those values are fascist by definition. Fascism: noun. a totalitarian governmental system led by a dictator and emphasizing aggressive nationalism, militarism, and often racism (Webster’s Dictionary).

    Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, Rice, et al have continually lied to all Americans, Democrat and Repulican alike. Republicans believe in their values BUT they apparently don’t realize that Bush et al are not promoting Republican values. Are Republican voters so blind that they cannot see that Bush does not even support or believe in Republican ideals?

    Any president who would stand up in a debate while being fed information secretly is a president who lacks integrity and is a dishonest person. The Whitehouse Press Secretary lied at least 3 times when asked about a listening device under Bush’s jacket (since he gave 4 different answers, clearly at least 3 of them were not true). That is not integrity; that is not acceptable no matter how you slice it and no matter what political party you support. Cheney, Halliburton, Ken Lay, Enron, Harken Energy, the Saudi Royal connection, Bush’s reaction on 9/11, WMD…this is only a small sampling of what we know to be dishonest dealings in this administration. The examples are nearly endless and growing each day.

    America was founded on resistance to tyrrany. American ideals are something that should be acted upon not just spoken in sound bites to appear as though they matter. Bush can tell us every day (and does) about WMD, safety, terrorists, Hussein, and spout how the Iraquis are glad we’re over there but saying any of those things doesn’t make them true. If you want to really know a man don’t listen to what he says, watch what he does. The Bush administration is based on tyrrany and the ideals of fascism. We’ve seen almost 4 years of action showing that to be a fact.

  160. Alex Says:

    Okay, I have looked over a lot of these comments that have been posted and I have found myself in a moment of complete blockade. There seems to be some people on here who are making comments that are making me think about who I would vote for, but the thing is that I don’t believe that a lot of you are giving the Republicans any chance to tell you anything. You guys say that all we say are sensless comments that mean nothing and only have malicious remarks to say about the Democrats. The only problem is is that YOU GUYS DO THAT TOO! You guys do not look to anything that is logical but simply jump to the conclusion that Bush has done something wrong. Whether that is the war on terrorism or the something that he does in the debate. You all focus on Bush to the extent that you don’t even think about the mistakes that Kerry has made or COULD MAKE if he gets elected. I believe that it is true that Kerry has made his fair share of mistakes and could be questioned on some of the same things that you are questioning Bush about.

    As to the thing about how Rome is a model city. Let me remind you that it did fall and what saved it for so long was the fever of religion that hit it. Just because Rome lasted for so long does not mean that we should walk right in their footsteps. I mean if we are to follow what Rome did, then does it not stand to reason that we will also fall as Rome fell? I do not have a problem with the people of the world coming here and becoming citizens and then voting. I think that if that is what someone over in England or China or Africa or wherever if that is what they want to do then go ahead. But I do not believe that those countries such as the ones named above should be able to vote on who is going to run our country without being part of our country. That is wrong. I mean that would mean that they could bring over their pregnant women have their children here, thus making them American citizens, and then their country could vote that baby into Presidency to potentially attempt to control America.

    That is all of my commments for now.

    Amanda, keep up the good work. You seem to be able to put many of these democrats into a tizzy.

  161. Joey Says:

    Alex…you are correct. Putting us in a tizzy is exactly what it’s doing. Trying to argue with blind stupidity does it every time!

  162. Ponyboy Says:


    The problem is Republicans have lost all their credibility. That’s why no noe is litening, they just assume it’s a lie, like everything else. What kills me about republicans is all they seem to do is regurgitate everything the White House says, nothing but broken records.

    Btw Gel – You like someone who can make up his mind and get things done? Then you must love Michael Moore. He is doer.

    **FYI Undecided Voters**

    Canada has had a liberal government for the last 15 years and guess what – one of the best health care systems in the world (free for all), cleanest air and water, 8 consecutive balanced budgets, no debt, strongest economy in the G7, and we implemented Kyoto. Don’t be fear mongered into voting for the status quo, because quite honestly, may god have mercy on all of us (the world) if Bush is re-elected.

  163. Joey Says:

    cjrhmh….good statement!

  164. Ralph Says:

    A question to all of you: Do you think Kerry would not have gone to Iraq?
    For me it seems, that the real decisions in the US are not taken in the White House, but in Wall Street. And for the economy the war in Iraq is absolutely positive, hmmmm…
    And if that is so, it doesn´t matter who is president- the only difference is, how well the person sells the ideas!
    But maybe I´m wrong (I hope so…)

  165. Liviu Says:

    Hmmm… was Mr. Bush wired?

    My only comment: You can run (with a 9V alkaline battery)…but you cannot hide!

  166. anthy Says:

    Amanda, you’re right when you say that democrats have been throwing bad names at the bush supporters on this blog. I wish they hadn’t called you bad names, because that’s not the way to convince anybody of a point. That is the exact reason why I am usually incredibly put off by any pro-bush website. They are always calling liberals terrible names, as well as adding racist and homophobic slurs to their statements instead of making actual points. I commend you on visiting this site for more information. Whatever your current belief is, it is always important to listen to both sides of the story. That is why I am grateful for your opinions on this blog. (I have recently been checking out republicans for bush websites, they are fascinating!) I know some questions to you have been rudely stated, but I hope that you will continue to answer the questions asked anyway. I am especially interested in what you would think if (and I’m going to ask this question hypothetically)
    What would you think about the justification for the war in Iraq if it were true that all of the media was being controlled by conservatives and that all the news broadcast on TV and in the newspaper was actually the most positive footage and stories that the journalists could find?

  167. johnny Says:

    white house/pentagon/”coalition” spokesperson dan senor on fox news chatting with john?blonde wig no forehead gibson spewing bush lie line all is well in iraq our policies are working, the terrorists are turning in their used ak’s, rpgs, and machine guns all across iraq(photo ops)and we are close to coming to terms again with the butchers in iraq while everyone else in the country suffers. what a deal we are coming close to terms with fringe elements of the insurgency what wonderful progress i feel so much safer now that i know allawi is near to terms with fringe elements of the insurgency! Does that mean they dont want to kill allawi next chance they get anymore? Man are things just lookin up over ther in iraq or what? what were seein here is leadership over ther and its hard work…ummreal hard work… but were turnin the corner and it just keeps gettin better over there and thats what yall wanna hear right?

  168. johnny Says:

    ralph i think you are way wrong about wall street makin out like fat cats on iraq war; theres more to wall street than halliburton! Kerry would probably not have attacked iraq over fake inteligence reports either, he is not that stupid; like bush is

  169. johnny Says:

    earpeice schmearpeice who cares whats in bushs ear anyway he is so messed up i dont think no earpeice or lump on his back will make him act any smarter he is so dumb! whoever votes for bush must be diehard yellow dog republican automatons wearing horse blinders and deaf!

  170. Bushinenergizer Says:


    Deem? Seem? Steam? Veem? You don’t even know what end is what and what…

    Mistakes are Mistakes, Period. NO questions or No BUT’s. Not even Deem or Seem.

    I guess you are into Bush Syndrome that cannot let go…deny all the mistakes, deny the reality, deny the pictures that are in front of you in every day life, deny that he was wired, deny that he had made mistakes, deny that he had made the Surplus into a Deficit, deny that he cuts the funds for Edcuation for No Child Left Behind, deny that Bush ever made any preparations and to win the peace, You are in great Denial.

    Here is an example of your Denial:

    All Women are free from under their Cloth which is called the Burka in Aghanistan. Amanda, not all of them, but most of them are still in the Burkas!! The Women are still afraid of their Terrorists among them, the ex Tailban among their Neighbourhood, It is never really Free for them unless they are completely GONE, but yet they are not actually gone, as matter as fact that Bush had let Bin Laden and his little group go free and the ex Tailban are still there in Afghanistan. AND YOU ARE TELLING ME THAT ALL WOMEN ARE FREE FROM UNDER THEIR CLOTH? Some of them, yes but not ALL OF THEM. They are still fearful.

    Also Born Again Christian does not really mean you are completely reformed. I should know this because I am also a Christian. There are two different kinds of Christians- the true one and the false one. Well, Bush does not even go to Church all the time, right? Now why is that? I think that is just a paint to cover up his true self, to make himself look good for the Americans to see…just like those Receiver on his back to make his Words all prettied up…to win the Debates and to win the Election.

    What’s up with Karl Rove? I remember that guy was the most depised man in America because he is capable of screwing up People’s lives…remember Watergate? and Clinton Years??? Karl Rove also put A woman in Jail for not telling about Watergate, and NOW he is working for Bush? mmmmm I can see the connection…their plain crookeness work well together!!! :)

  171. anthy Says:

    Amanda and everyone else, what I meant to say in my previous blog is that I find Republicans for Kerry websites fascinating. Not republicans for Bush as I erroneously said, that is so redundant I could spit on a fish. Actually, republicans for Bush websites are fascinating, in how little true information is published. Anyway, Amanda, please check out this awesome website if you haven’t already:
    What I find particularly interesting is their point that the current republican administration is anti-republican and anti-American.

  172. johnny Says:

    prediction: Bushs’ bulge will not appear on his back this evening though he probably will be walking a little funny tonight, who knows, bush will probably really get to likin all that debatin an stuff

  173. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Remember Bush’s Famous Words in Second Debate?

    “You can run but you cannot hide…”

    Ouch, Bush that gotta hurt…because

    “You Ran but you cannot hide either!!” when it comes to your National Guard Service and avoiding Vietnam Service.

    How is that feel, Bush? You are speaking the words that would hurt and haunt you later. You are trying to cover up and hide your records, but it won’t last very long. It will come out eventually.

    And now the last Debate that Bush will use:

    “Kerry is a Tax and Spend Liberal”

    Ouch again!!! Bush that gotta hurt, you are hurting yourself with these very words…because…

    “Surplus of $600 Billion came all the way in addition of $450 Billion in Debt”.

    That shows the proof that you (Bush) is a great spender and the worst in many, many decades. Tax? You GAVE the tax cuts only to the Wealthiest of 2%. Which means you disregard the taxes for the Middle Class and the very poorest American Citizens. Remember the Homeless on the street? There are 21 million homeless and the taxes don’t count for them. Remember you saw the one homeless during your four years of Administation, you (Bush) had shrugged and ignored that very homeless person which only asked for more money for his meal. There was a video of it when you were visiting some State and that homeless person was there and you told the Security: “Get him out of here!!”

    How is that helping the American Middle Class Citizens and the Poor? Tax Cuts don’t help them all that much, but GREATLY helped the Wealthiest, in fact Bush is helping the Wealthy making more PROFITS THAN THEY ARE PAYING OUT….They get $10,000 or more in tax cuts. The normal regular person like you and me, not making very much money, lost a job, only get at least $200 in tax rebates, sometimes nothing at all. Do I need to say more???? Health Care? It skyrocketed with very HIGH PREMIUMS, DO YA LIKE PAYING HIGH PREMIUMS FOR THE NEXT FOUR MORE YEARS????

  174. johnny Says:

    hey gel: If bush bends over will you kiss his bulge?

  175. anthy Says:

    Ok. Why is it that when Edwards was on the Jay Lenno show the other night, all he said about the president’s mysterious back piece was “it’s his battery”? That in itself is funny, but why not drive in the point? Why has the Kerry group not really acknowledged the fact that Bush is using a reciever illigally?

    On another note, I did see Kerry pat Bush’s backside in the beggining of the debate, methinks he knows about the earpiece, and maybe was trying to jam it by smacking it hard. Maybe he did just that, and thats why Bush sucked so surprisingly badly even for him.

  176. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Stay tuned for the Last Debate and the topic will be on Domestic Issues. Would be interesting to watch but Bush is changing the topic…from “You can run, but you cannot hide” to “Kerry is a Tax and Spend Liberal.”

    What was his favourite quote in the First Debate? I cannot remember but do remember this “You can run, but you cannot hide” because he was yelling and yelling like a Yell Leader that is what made me remember. And the most flub-flubs was the question to the “Three Mistakes you had made during the four years of Administration” and Bush could not come up with one. That WAS the mistake for not answering honestly. ;)

  177. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Oh yeah, I remember Bush would say in the First Debate, the most obvious was “Let me finish…”

    That alone had to be something to think about why he would say that?

  178. Ron Says:

    Is Bush wired? The story is gaining traction. I heard it discussed on PRI this afternoon. Apparently there were stories in the LAT and the NYT also. Part of the discussion on the radio had to do with the phenomenon of “blogs” bringing this issue to the surface and the speed with which it occurred.

  179. Amanda Says:

    ok…Bushinenergizer…you said that I commented that all women are free. Well…you need to get your story straight…I specifically stated that “I’m talking about the slow, but rapidly growing, freedom among a mid-sized majority of the Iraqi people, and when I imply that the women have freedom…i mean the small majority…that have taken the risk. I’m sure that there are women that are still convinced there are dangers…but that’s why we’re in Iraq…to liberate.”

    ….if that were true…and conservatives were controlling the media coverage in Iraq…I would be ashamed of the Republican Party. BUT…why would the republicans control the media coverage and only let the war images on tv…IF they’re trying to win one of the most important elections in America? They’re trying to convice the American people that we’re making a difference. I have seen images on the internet and I’ve watched documentaries of some pretty uplifting and awesome stories…told by some Iraqi civilians. So…I don’t think that the reporters wouldn’t be ABLE to find anything not associated with war or hate. I think maybe one of the reasons for all of the buzz on the negative spectrum in Iraq would be that importance of the success of our troops. Maybe they’re trying to show that we ARE doing something…that we are taking affirmitive actions. But then again…I’m also under the belief that the Liberal party has made some influental impacts on the media coverage in America.

  180. Hoping for the best!! Says:

    It is great to see that so many Americans do have their eyes open to what their President and his side-kicks are up to. The media coverage in your land seems to be extremely controlled and directed.
    When I read Amanda’s comments it makes me sad to see that some people still actually believe the stories that they are being fed.
    Amanda, who decided that it is America’s job to “liberate” Iraq? Is America a democracy or an empire??? Do you really believe that Bush decided to “liberate” Iraq out of the kindness of his heart. Come on honey, wake up! It can’t of been because Sadamm was behind 11/09 either(or was he?? Hmmm, maybe he was in a “bad guys” gang with Bin Laden…), so what was the actual reason???? The weapons of mass destruction? Hmm, who knows, could have been. What a shame that Bush couldn’t start helping the “poor and unfortunate” people in his own land first before going off doing “good deeds” all over the world. It’s all too much for me I’m afraid.
    I absolutely and totally agree with Bushinenergizer’s comments. What a shame that your President can get away with ripping you all off, padding his pockets, his friends pockets and their friends pockets.
    Stand up for your rights people!!!
    I think I can say on behalf of many Europeans that we are hoping for the best in November. Get rid of Bush!!!! He’s not only a danger to you, he’s a danger to us all.

  181. B.J. from AZ Says:

    I found and have been reading this blog since the 3rd debate tonight. I didn’t know about the wiring, but I do remember seeing the box under his jacket. I just thought it had something to do with being on TV.

    I, too, am a true independent. I am depressed that 1/2 our population can’t see the big picture. Are there this many people in our country who would join a cult, blindly following , and having faith in a person who has no record to run on, just attacking, pre-recorded soundbites that are rerun ad nauseum? He reminds me of a 4 year old, depending on name calling when they are losing the battle. He said the other day that he was “just getting started”. Boy, is THAT right. He hasn’t done a damn thing in 4 years about the growing problems right under his stuck-up nose. I was fiercely wishing that Kerry would make the point that “YES, I DO have a 20 year record. A 20 year record of public service, AS WELL AS WARTIME MILITARY SERVICE”. What has Mr. Bush been doing for the last 20 years, besides ruining America’s reputation for world leadership, global philanthropy, fairness, integrity, diplomacy and INTELLIGENCE.
    I’d venture a guess that the families of the soldiers killed in Iraq, wish that Bush would have fought and strategized as hard to keep their loved ones out of a war, as he did to keep himself out of one!

    No, jerk, I DON’T have “more money in my pocket because of your tax cuts”. There is no better time than now to revive the question: Are you better off than you were 4 years ago? NO WAY! How can this man even TALK about fiscal responsibility? LET’S SEE……What would you rather put on YOUR Visa card? Charges for rebuilding crumbling infastructure (such as dams, bridges, highways, and power grids), educating children, drilling for oil, providing a standard of health care IN OUR COUNTRY. OR like Mr. Bush, would you gladly repay Tuesday for HIS war in Iraq today? What a nerve criticizing Kerry’s plans to spend OUR money on US! I don’t recall him answering at all the question about our OVERSTRETCHED military. If we elect him, we will drive America right into the ground. Our dollar will be worthless in this “global economy”. Aren’t we already broke now? My wallet says yes! I’m one of the “middle class”, slipping through the cracks, and at this point, hanging on by a splinter (and I haven’t lost my job!). I blame his policies for 90% of the downfall of the economy. Maybe it all really crashed when thinking people realized we had a loose cannon in the White House?

    Coming from one of the people without health ins. I LOL at Bush’s claim that Kerry’s plan would lower the quality of health care. You can’t get any worse than NO health care at all! Can you imagine the next 10-15 years? Our mortality rate is going to break records as a result of lack of health care for those millions of people. Isn’t everyone really paying for all of us now anyway? Indirectly, through Medicaid, ACCES programs, Dr., hospital and ins. costs, covered people are paying the price for all that.

    Watching the replay of the debate tonight, I believe he WAS listening to something. I observed what you alluded to earlier. The distracted, shifty eyes. He wore out his eyelids and about broke his face with that fake weird looking smile, too. I think he looked like he was “on something”. He was drooling and foaming out one side of his mouth and smiling at inappropriate moments. Is fully half of this country THAT blind to body language? This guy is a complete fraud and fake. A bumbling idiot. A severe embarrassment to our country. I fear if he is re-unelected that the muslum world will hate us even more, thinking we agree with his ideals, reasoning, decisions and actions.

  182. Joey Says:

    Some scary and interesting reading.

  183. anthy Says:

    Bravo B.J. from AZ! I have to agree with you that four years ago our country was in completely fit, tip top shape! The best ever! I was just transferring into a private college from my junior college, and excited. Then Bush became the president. The stock market had been rocky, and was dropping slowly, but with him in office, it was like whammo! It all went down soo fast from there! All the people were so very uncertain about owning stocks with him in office; they just lost value like mad. Well, I graduated from college, one and a half years ago, and I still haven’t found a full time job. True, I am making more than ever before working temp jobs, my current position pays out $13.50 an hour. But before Bush was prez, and our dollar was so much stronger, I made $12.00 an hour at temp jobs. Our president said last night that he would tell someone whose job was outsourced that he would give government aid for schooling so that they could get a better job. I just graduated from college, and I can’t find a regular job! If I had just never went to college and looked for full time work when our economy was awesome, maybe I’d have a high paying permanent position right now. I too am scared of what will happen to the value of US currency if we have four more long years of Bush. What is really sad is that a lot of people will still vote for Bush even though they are counting their pennies for meals. Truly the only people who should vote for Bush (not that anyone with a conscience should) would be the people who make over $200,000 a year. It’s really sad, and despicable for anyone to use religion as a green card for any action. It’s especially scary when our president claims he is doing the work of god. It’s terrible that there’s this unspoken understanding between Bush and many Christians that if you question him, (not Him), you will be doing a sin against America! Nope. It is our right, in fact, our duty as American citizens to question authority. Our forefathers are turning in their graves right now. They were resting just fine four years ago.

  184. Ponyboy Says:

    LOL B.J.!!!

    I too noticed the drooling and foaming out one side of his mouth, maybe he was thinking about invading another country?


  185. anthy Says:

    Does anyone have a picture of the drool they can link me to? I could make it out and laughed about it on my TV, but I dan’t have cable, so it was completly fuzzy. I wouldn’t change my channel to the Fox station to see it better even though Fox news station is the only station I get crystal clear. (Scary fact in itself) I wonder how many homes in the US only get the Fox station clearly because they can’t afford cable?

  186. Ponyboy Says:

    Anthy – Excellent question regarding Fox. Why is that Fox is the only network channel that comes in crystal clear. Surely they don’t have better equipment than ABC, NBC or CBS? This will just be one of amny unanswered questions that have been arising since Bush took office.

  187. ed Says:

    viva la re-election!

  188. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Yes, not only Bush has an extraordinary facial expressions, he was looking rather conspitated and BANGING

  189. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Amanda: You are wrong, please kindly look up at your Messages, it was Afghanistan that you were referring to. I am surprised to the fact you cannot even keep your story straight. Just like Bush cannot even keep his story straight when it comes to Iraq.

  190. Bushinenergizer Says:

    opps, forgot BANGING and to explain more…Bush was Banging and Banging and Banging the Podium the whole debate…it was rather embarrassing to see our President Banging and Banging…would he do that while in Oval Office? He look rather more angry inside than a Peacful Kerry which is more calm, collected well behaved debater.

  191. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Did you see Cheney’s Wife saying on National Television saying that Kerry is not a good man that he is using the Politcs in a dirty cheap, and tawdry tactic when it comes to his Lesbian Daughter.

    I would think that it is an admission of the Mother’s shame for the World to know her daughter is a Lesbian. Mother is shameful of her daughter. That is why she would say anything like that. I don’t think the Gay People wants her to say that, as most Gay People WANT their Parents to approve their Sexual Preference and not to be shameful.

    FACTS ARE FACTS and the WORLD KNOWS that Cheney’s Daughter is a Lesbain, no BUTS or NO IFS, that is the end of subject and the Mother would take it up and that would show her shame to the World. I would think Gay People would approve Kerry’s plan over Bush’s because Bush Plan would not be in favour of Gay People. I don’t know how Cheney can get around that Constitution Amendament to approve Marriage for her Daughter to a Woman. That is a Fact. It is important that Kerry bring that up, because due to the fact that Bush want to ban and put an amendent in the Constitution which will ban Gay Marriage. These are the Facts and Cheney’s Wife knows that. She should not question Kerry’s Credibility, she should question her Daughter. I respect everyone’s rights to be Gay, who cares? But Marriage? No way. Man and Woman, period.

  192. anthy Says:

    I strongly agree with you Bushinenergizer, being a strong advocate of gay/lesbian rights, I was excited this whole campaign at every mention of Mary Cheney’s sexual orientation. I mean, even her conservative dad put her on national TV post vice-presidential debates. This was a major breakthrough for gays and lesbians. Especially considering the fact that her girlfriend of so many years was also on the stage! Incredible. And I figure her dad brought her up, so politically, Mary Cheney is absolutely fair game. He also thanked John Edwards for saying kind words about his daughter! Why did Mary Cheney suddenly get mouth diarrhea?
    I know the gay thing is a very touchy and issue full of turmoil for families, but all Kerry said was that he believes Mary Cheney was born that way. Isn’t that one of the most pro-gay things you can say? It makes the whole gay thing sinless, as well as puts the issue into gods hands, and out of the darkness of shame. Is Mary Cheney embarrassed that her and her husband have gay genes in their DNA? Its very strange behavior (and late) to try and take back putting Mary in the spotlight which is what Dick did over a month ago..

  193. Amanda Says:

    Bushinenergizer ….if YOU will kindly look up at my comment on October 12, 2004 @ 6:32 pm…I did not refer to Afghanistan. In fact…I have never commented on Afghanistans.

  194. anthy Says:

    Sorry again, what I meant was why did Mary Cheney’s mom get diarrhea at the mouth?
    Also, I said I strongly agree with Bushinenergiser, but I’ll agree to disagree on the marriage being only between a man and a woman statement added at the end. I think that marriage between two men or two women would be just fine, but I also think that having legal rights that actually parallel hetero-marriage rights would be a-ok as well. The point being, more rights for gays and lesbians, not less. Very interesting that Cheney is involved with giving his daughter second-class citizenship if his and Bush’s amendment passes. And yes, I have heard him state that he disagrees with the prez on the Marriage amendment, but he hasn’t been strongly opposed to it either. He just has nothing to say about it. Sounds like a protective father to me!

  195. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Have you noticed that the Last Debate is different than the First and Second Debate? The Wordings are all DIFFERENT. They are not the same for Bush, It is like seeing THREE DIFFERENT BUSH Debaters. Different Quotes, different fancy and intelligent words. As matter as Fact, in the Last Debate, Bush used his own words which is not so intelligent. The First and Second sounds more of an Intelligent answers that are not of Bush. I think Bush was pressured to lose his Receiver in the Last Debate in fears that some one might do a strip search. LOL

    But Overall, I think Kerry won the Debate Three for Three (Amanda REGARDLESS).

  196. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Athany: I agree 100% with you and I think the Gay should have Legal Rights MORE not Less…and that is the beginning and work all the way up.

  197. Bushinenergizer Says:


    I looked up your Statement on October 12, 2004 at 6:32 PM and that is where you were wrong about the Location, very wrong actually.

    You quoted in your very own words:

    “For the first time in Iraq a woman has the freedom to not hide beneath a robe….to experience the real world without fear–to Vote!!”

    To correct you on the Location, It is not Iraq that has Women beneath the Robes, it is actually Afghanistan and it is called the Burkas…and now to correct you again on the Voting…In Iraq, It has not happened yet…and again It WAS Afghanistan who Women had voted about a week ago…So you are wrong about the Location and the Voting Process. I guess you are again out of touch with Reality, my dear….

    Iraq, the Women are not beneath the robes, but has a black robes, but not fully covered on the face. It was Afghanistan who Women are completely under the robes from head to toe…and you say “Fearful”, In Afghanistan, the Women are more “Fearful” than it is in Iraq.

    Why I do refer to Afghanistan because it is right circumstances happening in Afghanistan, not in Iraq. Get your Story straight about the Locations and what is happening in the World, be Informed every day, sit in front and watch ABC, FOX, NBC, MNSBC, CNN, even Al-Jazzera, etc…or better yet, read a Newspaper to be fully informed what is happening OVER there….I read Newspapers every day and watch the News every day, in fact on many, many channels to get the full viewing on what is happening over there.

  198. anthy Says:

    Right on Bushinenergizer about the gay thing. Check this link out:
    It appears that he did in fact wear the device under his suit last night. A clear shot this time!
    I didn’t see all of debate 2, but bush did perform entirely differently on that debate than he did in the first. Also, he was different again on his last debate. I thought that for Bush, the last debate was probably his best. Except for the parts where his face almost started to grimace again, and then the drool on the left side of his face (his right).I still haven’t found a clear pic of that anywhere. I guess I’ll just have to be patient.

  199. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Athany: Yes I know…I don’t know why they put Mary Cheney on, maybe they (Republicons Party and Bush Administration are using her to do anything to Win the Election. Even if it hurts her Daughter. They can put on anything they can think they can win the Election in that process. Kerry is not using the Gay Daughter of Cheney to motivate his peers, but Facts are Facts…no one can deny that and in having a Vice President, we have the right to know what effect it has on Bush Plan’s to ban by putting the Amendent on and what Cheney is going to do about it in having a Gay Daughter. Kerry is just saying “It is a Conflict of Interest within the Bush Administration.” It is not his intention to hurt Cheney’s Gay Daughter, but in having a Powerful Vice President, we have the right to know what actions they will take in four more years and what effect it might have on his Daughter. Simple as that.

  200. Bushinenergizer Says:

    LOL Yes I saw the mouth drool…foaming at the mouth, Did you hear he say you don’t need Flu Shots, period…only for the sick and the Seniors. I think he needs a Rabies Shot himself!! His Face grimmaced, and his eyes moves up and down like a zig-zag and he was thinking if he was saying the right things…his face was red…maybe all flustered or flushed or just plain conspitated. The Eye Rolling and the Banging of the Podium through out the Debate is what sets me off. He must of been off his Prescriptions for his Dementia or he is thinking about that “drink”.

    Kerry just looks tired, and very tired, which is very understandable when campaigning all over United States and Jet Lag can do that to you…I am surprised that Bush is not at least tired…as matter as fact he looks “Well Rested”. It looked like Bush had never travelled all around United States. It was Kerry who worked hard and worked fair and square. Bush cannot play fair and square. Not when it comes to 2000 Election when Bush had stole the Election from Florida. It was reported that Bush might do it again.

  201. anthy Says:

    Amanda, I just double checked that what Bushinehergizer said is true, and he is right on both accounts. The elections that you were thinking about were held in Afghanistan, and the women wearing the burkas (robes) were also from Afghanistan.
    a link about the voting and here’s a link that talks about burkas
    So anyway, what other evidence do you have of people being relieved that the US has become involved?

  202. anthy Says:

    Bushinenergizer: Did you hear he say you don’t need Flu Shots, period…only for the sick and the seniors. I think he needs a Rabies Shot himself!!
    That’s pretty hilarious. That whole flu shot thing was weird! I didn’t know that there was such a problem. I am getting ready to take a vacation to China in November, and I happened to call Kaiser today to ask about getting immunized for my trip. So I take the initiative to ask about the flu shot thing, thinking maybe I need one (though I’m young and able bodied) for my first trip to China. The nurse told me right out that Kaiser doesn’t have any flu shots! She said that they actually do have them in stock, but they must be sent back! She repeated to me that only the elderly and babies should use them to not be wasteful. I said, if we weren’t having a crisis like this, would you recommend the shot? She said that she wishes everyone could have it, including her and her son. She highly recommends it and said there will be much trouble this season.

  203. Bushinenergizer Says:

    I wonder what is the October Surprise for the Republican Party and the Democrats Party? It will become the nastiest Campaign ever seen in History, even the most nastiest Television Ads going back and forth…The Republican Party is even worse with its Ads striking on Kerry again and again and even worse with the Swift Vets for Truths, it is just disgusting smearing Vietnam like that. It totally sets me off. What happened in Vietnam happened and should stay in the Past. Why is Bush keeps on bring up the Vietnam Syndrome to lay upon the People even the Veterans of Vietnam?

    I do believe Bush was wired during the 2000 Election though. He always been a cheater even on his National Guard Medical Test by refusal and gets away with it by going into Business School but maintained “C” GPA average. Drinks and uses Drugs…had been in trouble with Police before…he “hides” his past pretty good and well I might have to say…and he tries so hard to keep it hidden just like his receiver. He is not a Speaker, but rather a Winner just like a Grinch who stole Christmas. (2000 Election- how can people not forget?)

  204. Bushinenergizer Says:

    My good friend had named the Republican Party the “Republicons”, noticed the CONS? Because the Republicons and Bush Administration had conned you into their beliefs that they are right about everything including their Programs to War in Iraq. They had conned you into voting for them, they had conned you in believing that the War is Justified, that there were WMD’s in Iraq, but worse to tell People being conned thinking that their Health Care, Prescription, Job Creation and the Economy will be taken care of. He had broken the promises taking care of all of the Programs.

    Rememeber the NO Child Left Behind, there was indeed Child left behind!! Because the Bush Administration had cut the fundings for Education.

  205. johnny Says:

    another terrible day for bush loving sycophants. the blustering blowhard oreilly caught wacking himself silly while raving maniacally over our wonderful noble prez. hey oreilly i heard kerry has agreed to appear on your show under these conditions, you pay him 60M$ and promise not to harrass him sexually during the interview. LOL

  206. johnny Says:

    NEWSFLASH!!: Fox(faux)news network is going to have an opening soon soon for a blustering blowhard pervert. they say trouble comes in three’s and blowhard limbaugh is set to go down on doctor shopping/illegal cds charge;oreilly is toast whether he sues or not; hmm…. lets see here, Look out Hannity, the fickle finger of fate is pointing your way!! LOL

  207. Herb Rodnut Says:

    It’s so audacious, reckless and simply unbelievable that Bush’s handlers would wire him up again for the final debate – even after his mysterious first debate suit bulge (receiver and battery pack) was clearly exposed on ABC’s This Week With George Stepanopolis last Sunday, along with other news and print outlets. Bush’s assertions and responses during the debate(s)were much too elaborate and smooth for his own creation. Left to his own faculties, Bush has virtually no personal reasoning power related to current events and the issues of our time. His handlers are terrified of his lack of raw knowledge and therefore, dangerous as it was, they were forced to employ the listening device one last time for the final debate. This time it was again positioned tightly in the small of his back. It’s likely the Dems have electronically monitored and recorded the debate transmission and are working to descramble it as fast as possible. Don’t be surprised if it’s all over the airwaves in the coming Sunday talk shows…or perhaps the Dems will wait until the right moment later this month to present clear evidence in order to bring on their own October surprise.
    Should the public become aware of Bush’s utter incapacity to grasp and address the issues, forcing him to clandestinely rely on others for his debate responses, the public shock will completely knock him out on election day. As the Buddha once said : “Beware of too much cleverness”.

  208. johnny Says:

    Hey Bushinenergizer, Good comment about bush the grinch! Matter of fact bush looks a helluva lot just like the grinch that stole christmas, doesn’t he? Hope this doesn’t give that stupid grinch any new sick ideas, lets just hope he takes his losing the election fair and square and packs his trash and gets on down the road back there to crawford nice and peaceful like!! LOL HAHAHA

  209. BJ in AZ Says:

    I think the people who are ga-ga for Bush would stick with him NO MATTER WHAT he does, says, acts like, or looks like! They are SO behind him, that I have, at times, taken to wondering if I’M the one who’s off in MY judgement. Look folks…’s us against the sheep. And there are herds and herds of them! Please beg everyone you know to VOTE. And if they don’t vote, they are never again allowed to complain to anyone about ANYTHING that’s wrong with the country! Post 4 years of Bush, I NOW KNOW the true gravity and importance of voting. We can bitch all we want. It means NOTHING!!! Our vote is the ONLY thing we have. I really get that “GIVE UP, WHAT’S THE USE?” feeling though, when I hear about all the worries over accurate vote counts. Let’s get out there in droves so there will be NO DOUBT who won, even if there are spotty problems with voting systems. THIS IS HOW HE DID IT BEFORE!!!! DON’T LET IT HAPPEN AGAIN!!!!

    I hate to admit it, but I’ve come to feel secret contempt for ANYBODY that wants MORE of what Bush doesn’t have to give! I’m 52 yrs. old and have never actually hated and despised any polititian this much. I wasn’t thrilled with Kerry either, but he’s a hellova lot more capable of reasoning and using his basic common sense. He knows what is really going on with us. America has it’s OWN weapon of mass destruction; GEORGE W. BUSH! Getting as close to a dictator with his regime as they come. He did to another country, the very thing we were supposedly afraid of them doing to us. Now, who is the worse offender? Who is the one not smart enough NOT to fight?

    I wondered how he would do, having to campagne and actually show himself. I thought he would self-destruct. I can see why they were scared and desperate enough to employ a ventriliquist to accompany him on the trail!

    Another thought. (I have alot of them!) I know both camdidates exaggerate. But that outright lie of Cheney’s about never having met Edwards, was treated like just another day in the park. Has anyone confronted him about it?

    I know Bush has no clue as to how much he has really ruined our national spirit and deeeeeply divided us. I lost a good, 6 year friendship this summer over our political disagreement. He could not give me a clear, concise definition of what the republican party really stood for. (He’s pro choice and pro stem-cell research). I chided him because he kept avoiding really answering, even though he’s a “staunch republican”. He got mad and left our dinner. I haven’t heard from him since and he wouldn’t return my calls. I know of 2 other people who are not currently speaking with LONGTIME friends that are in disagreement with them. One is a Bush lover who is angry with her pro-Kerry friend. I really like and love this person, so I won’t broach the subject at all with her, but I felt a stab of letdown and disappointment when I found out how she felt about Bush. (Oh no! She’s a sheep, and I always thought she was so on the ball!) In my hairdressing business, it is eerily quiet when it comes to this subject, unlike other years when an election was all the talk. Everyone is afraid to bring it up. I SURE don’t bring it up. I can’t afford to lose clients over the idiot, AND, I’m afraid I’ll lose respect for someone I previously liked, if they start touting Bush. Anyway, my work suffers when I’m highly irritated, so it’s best to stay mum. SAD.

  210. BJ in AZ Says:

    P.S. I have sworn by getting my flu shot every year for 10 years in a row. I work with the public and have had pneumonia 3 times in my life, before I started getting them. I almost died the last time, and he says “just don’t get a flu shot”. No biggie. He’s got the best health care in the world at HIS fingertips. (and I bet he IS getting or already had HIS vaccine!!!!) I’ve heard of price gouging at $1000 a pop to get one. I see I won’t be getting one in any case. I guess if he “isn’t concerned about Bin Laden” then what’s the big deal with a little flu epidemic? Certainly couldn’t be as bad as what Saddam might have done, or any terrorist.

    God bless and help our pitiful nation. SOOOOO many things need changing in the good old US of A.

    Speaking of God. Will Bush go to hell for faking his born again spirituality to garner the huge “religious” vote?

  211. Leberwurst Says:

    We have had several television reports on European television with chronicles of the “stories” that G. Bush and Co. have fed America with. Just watching these and listening to your government change their story again and again and again makes one nearly sick! I can’t believe that so many of your fellow citizens still believe all of this. Was it Bin Laden or was it Sadamm, did Sadamm have weapons of mass destruction or not, was it “mission accomplished” or “mission definitely not accomplished”?. The list goes on and on with statements that were changed after having been spoken. Can you really believe a government that takes back what it has previously said and changes the story?? It just doesn’t add.
    The coverage that we had of the war in Iraq on European television was very different than what you got to see on your tv channels (we have American channels too, so yes, I watch them). You were presented with the “glorified” Hollywood version. We had it presented in it’s raw and ugly truth. I think it is sad and also despicable that the journalistic machinery in USA is kept so controlled. It’s all about keeping the majority of your country SCARED!!! What a powerful psycological weapon your government is using. Don’t get fooled by them. Michael Moore seemed to pick up on that mechanism pretty fast. They are making you all SCARED to keep you in your place. But open your eyes and look what they have done to your country. When I watch serious documentaries on tv (ARTE is a critical station – German/French) about some people in your country working three jobs a day, getting up at 5 and coming home at 11, and still just managing to get by, it makes me so sad. Then you see Bush being obviously more interested in the lives of other people in other countries (ie Iraq) than in those of his fellow citizens. Isn’t that a little strange. It can only have to do with money. Because if Bush isn’t even interested in helping his fellow citizens, then you can be sure as anything that he isn’t “helping” the Iraqi folk out of the kindness of his heart.
    As BJ in AZ says – get everyone you possibly know to VOTE!!! And let people know about this site. It is good to read what you have all been writing, and to see that you have seen through the cobwebs of lies! Best wishes for the election. We are going to be glued to the tv on this one. I wish I could vote, because I surely know who I would NOT be voting for. Good on you all, and all the best!!!!!!!!

  212. Alex Says:

    As to the comment about Republicans are just repeating whatever the White House says, I must say that all of the Democrats are just denying everything that the White House says and saying that what they are doing is wrong, no matter what they are doing. You guys take the other side of anything that comes out of the White House. So, no you cannot say that Republicans are just repeating whatever the White House says and act like we are stupid for doing it. Maybe if we say it over and over you Democrats will actually start to understand what we are saying.

  213. anthy Says:

    Alex- The Republicans have already said everything they could have to say in a positive light over and over and over, like a broken record. I am so sick of it. That is why Bush and Cheney had to repeat themselves through the debates, they had only five minutes of material, and they had to repeat themselves for 90 minutes. Notice that Cheney changed the topic right out when Edwards called him on Halliburton, to an out right lie that he had never met Edwards? Even if he remembered that Edwards and him had taken photographs together, and he’d be caught on that instead. It would shift the attention away from Halliburton. It came out so quick, you can bet Cheney had that just waiting for Edwards the second he mentioned Halliburton. He was right, there was hardly any media attention about the corrupt company that he was a CEO of tight up to his Vice Presidency, which is a topic I believe that hard core Bushies don’t even know about because they refuse to read any “liberal conspiracy theories” and also, it probably sounds boring. Well anyway, Cheney did his little stink job and the media only covered the little lie.

  214. Amanda Says:

    It’s so funny how Democrats “think” they now the inside facts…and how they “think” they know what happens in the Political world…and then they deride Republicans because they “think” they know everything. I think it really showed how low the Democrats will stoop when Kerry commented on Cheney’s daughter…which was completely innapropriate.

  215. Ponyboy Says:

    Amanda – You just proved that all Repbulicans can do is regurgitate what the White House tells them. It’s really quite sad, Bush did sooooo bad in all 3 debates that they have to try to find something Kerry said and make it an issue. If it was that bad of a thing to say, why did Dickhead Cheney compliment Edwards for saying the same thing in their debate???

  216. anthy Says:

    Besides the fact that Dick Cheney complimented John Edwards on the vice presidential debates, he was the first politician to “out” his daughter on this campaign. He did so in about mid August (I believe it was mid-august, around there anyway) when he held a press conference in a conservative state, I think it was Iowa. Anyway, at the press conference, he shocked everyone in bringing up his daughter without any provocation whatsoever. He just stated simply that he has a lesbian daughter that he loves, and he still believes, as he said he believed in his 2000 campaign, that all humans are made equal. He said that his personal preference would be to leave the constitution alone, and let the states decide on the issue. Edwards was just complimenting him on this and was saying that he agreed. Either way, Mary Cheney was already a hot issue due to Dick’s inclusion of her. Because her own father brought her up, because she works on the Republican campaign team making over $100,000 a year, because she’s had professional lesbian jobs for the past decade: Her position at Coors beer company was in Public relations between Gays and Lesbians and the Coors company… Because she’s been out of the closet already for so long, because she was interviewed in OUT magazine and other gay/lesbian sources over the past four years making her political standpoints very well known.. She is entirely fair game.

    PS Lynn Cheney (Mary’s mom) wrote a lesbian novel a few years back.
    Are these people crazy in coming up with an angry response weeks after their complimenting such behavior, or are they just making a stink? Hmm.

    ” Edwards: Now, as to this question. Let me say first that I think the Vice President and his wife love their daughter. I think they love her very much. And you can’t have anything but respect for the fact that they’re willing to talk about the fact that they have a gay daughter, the fact that they embrace her. It’s a wonderful thing. And there are millions of parents like that who love their children, who want their children to be happy.”

    After which, Dick Cheney responded: “Well, Gwen [the moderator], let me simply thank the Senator for the kind words he said about my family and our daughter. I appreciate that, very much.”

  217. anthy Says:

    Another side note I just thought of: Kerry’s response to whether or not gays and lesbians are born that way, as asked by the moderator to Bush, was way better than Bush’s weak, “I just don’t know.” Bush has met Mary Cheney undoubtedly many times in the past, as she’s Dick’s daughter. My response to people when they utter homophobic rhetoric us typically, “Do you personally know anyone who is gay?” They often say “no, but that is besides the point.” Actually, that is exactly the point, and if they had known gay people they would know that they are just ordinary people. Nothing to fret over, just people. Also by meeting gay people in person, they often even come to the conclusion that they are physically born that way. Apparently after meeting Mary Cheney what must be numerous times, our compassionate president Bush never had any sort of sympathetic revelation. He never looked at her, and said to himself, “you know, I think that being a lesbian is not a choice for Mary. She isn’t perverted, she just happens to be in a body which is sexually oriented towards women, same as me.” If he has had any such revelations, then he’s decided to not speak about it, and keep a firm, “I really don’t know the answer to that” stance.

    Laura Bush apparently fretted over the gay issue when asked point blank by Time magazine if she’s ever had any gay/lesbian and or their spouse spend the night at the white house. She responded unclearly, first saying she was not sure, then, saying she probably had at some point. I mean come on! Answer the frigg’n question lady! The Vice presidents daughter surely must have spent the night plenty of times, very likely with her partner Heather Poe of over 10 years. Is Laura’s memory that bad? I would rather, as a gay rights advocate, hear her acknowledge that “a few people have spent the night” and let the public speculate on who this could be, then say, “I don’t know, probably.”

  218. Bushinenergizer Says:

    I agree with BJ in AZ…I have also lost several Christian Friends over stupid Bush. They would vote for Republcan Bush regardless whereas THEY always complain to me, about such programs are being flawed and underfunded, especially Education and No Child Left Behind… I get so tired of their bitching and moaning and complaining that they are not getting what they wanted in these Programs such as Health Care, they complained that they had to pay “High Premiums”. But they do agree with War in Iraq and it was justified, and They also said Killing is right. They are Christians for God’s sake!! I kindly left them at the most important Commandent of all in the Bible: “You should love thy Neighbour as you would love yourself”. Iraq is our Neighbour, pretty far I might say, but still they are people over there, and we should love them and would treat them the same as we would treat ourselves, the same way you want to be treated. They said they don’t care about the Commandent!! They would just rather believe in the Glorious Bush and he is right on everything…the one who never made mistakes and so Purrrrfect! It just make me sick and puke when I hear those things. Now they said ohhh the Soldiers are dying…it may be my Husband…I said WAKE UP!!! It may be your Husband next!!! I TOLD THEM if they want to protect the Soldiers and to keep them alive, DO NOT Vote for Bush! I do believe in protectin your Country, well do it AT HOME, not OVERSEAS. The eye is off the ball…and too much are focused on foreign Country than they do at their own Country. The SECURITY IS SO BAD AT HOME THAT THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE FROM CUBA WENT THROUGH THE FREIGHTER BOX INTO THE USA. WHAT HAPPENED IF THE TERRORISTS GO THROUGH LIKE THAT??? Bush had cut the fundings and the programs for Cops and Firemens at home, we do not really feel safe! Not quite….

  219. anthy Says:

    I also agree with BJ and with Bushinenergizer. I am really having a difficult time remaining friendly with people who chose Bush with religious reasoning. This is totally unfair and unsafe! Anyway, even though Bush likes to say that he is doing the work of God, I have to say he probably is doing the work of the opposite if anyone at all! Like you stated Bushinenergizer, Bush does the exact opposite of the bible in so many ways! He does not love his neighbors. (He would take away gay and lesbian rights making them second class citizens. The Marriage amendment proposed did not just have a ban on gay marraige, it would literally legally allow discrimination and remove gay rights. Even republicans voted against it!) He does kill. (I never heard of Christ ever proposing to kill anyone.) He does not turn the other cheek (N.Y. towers bye-bye, war on terrorists) Anyway. It really angers me that people treat him like he’s god. That’s very scary.

  220. Bushinenergizer Says:

    I agree with Athany….I do distinctly remember Cheney’s comments in August, as matter as fact he introduced his Daughter by saying her name and she was a Lesbain. It is no Secret!!

    Kerry is right to bring it up because Cheny’s Daughter is a Lesbian and the fact the Bush and Cheney is “against” Gay Marriage. How is it that Mary Cheney is going to marry her Life Long Soul Mate when the Ban is passed from Bush? Face the Facts, we have the right to know what Cheney might do in these circumstances. It is appropriate to bring it up because Cheney is a Powerful Vice President and widely publicized in the eyes of Americans. We have the right to know what they believe in or NOT. If they planned against Gay Marriage, then it is going to be questionable for Cheney to tell his Daughter that she “can’t marry” her soulmate. I think it is a good reason and a viable statement/question. It is looking like that Mary Cheney is not representing the Gay People, it is beginning to look like she is against Gay Marriage as well and abide Cheney’s wishes to go against Gay Marriage. Mary Cheney “must” show support for all Gay and Lesbain People no matter what (regardless what her Father does believe in…). It is nothing wrong, and if she felt violated with her privacy, her Father should not have “brought it up in the first place!!!” What done is done…and face it.

  221. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Did you see that the Republican Party had blocked the Movie of “Farnheit 9/11” made by Micheal Moore. Micheal Moore is planning to air this Movie on the Eve of the Election and they blocked it!!! Micheal Moore already bought air time for this space to air this Movie, simple as that. Now Micheal Moore is looking/seeking Legal Action to go against the Republican Party. I think the People have the right to Freedom of Speech. As matter as fact, the movie is nothing new…it was selling hotseller Movies at WALMART! Why are the Republican Party SO aganist it?? AND it is so UNFAIR when Sinclair Report Brocasting Company is airing the whole Show of “Secret Dishonor on Kerry”. Why are they ALLOWED to air this one and Micheal Moore cannot!!! That is just plain discriminatory. Both sides should be able to show what they want in these ADS, because that is part of Campaigning…even if it is UGLY or NASTY!! It should be up to the Voters to make their final decision at the end result on November 2nd! That is facts of life!!!

  222. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Last note, we can see more Bombings, and more Killings in Iraq…even the Civilian People are dead including Women and Children, from the ages from 1 to 12…even babies involved. And you want to vote for Bush, go ahead and kill some more Civilians over there.

    We need to have a Vision for Peace and Kerry will do it for you. Simple as that. Kerry will have a Plan to pull out and have a master Plan to end the Mission and kill JUST the Terrorists, not the Civilian People or Innocent Bystanders. Do you like Bush saying “OH they are just Collateral Damage”. (means nothing to him). Kerry will make sure all the Alliacnes will come together including the UN Nations to come to the table and negiotate what is best for the World, and for Peace. Just remember Bush had let Bin Laden free, and did not in fact kill him yet. Kerry will make sure of that. That is the difference with the sure thing, and a fake thing. Bush is doing the fake thing, more like Chicken make the run on the road…and keep on running. Kerry will see to it that everything is done right then, without fail. AND at the same time, Kerry will protect better Security right at HOME, not overseas. We have the right to refocus on our own Country. We are forgetting about USA, and focus on the fundings overseas with OIL (Halliburton), etc.etc…and Bechtel Co.??? Even Halliburton had “billed” the USA Government around $120 Million dollars. What for? Their OIl? Their Security? For the Employers? For Cheney? What?! Why should we pay for Halliburton, and not for the Soldiers’ Equipment and body armour?

  223. All-American Says:

    BUSH IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!! He is doing God´s work by ridding the world of muslims, they´re all terrorists! And also, he is blocking gay marriages, they´re just sickos who are against the Bible! Finally, with BUSH pinko liberals have no voice, he gives us a STRONG MILITARY, so we can lead the free world and democracy! When Jesus returns, he´ll choose me because I did my best to kill and destroy and wipe off the face of the Earth all those who were against Him (In my always-right, God-fearing point of view, of course)

    (If you have read this far and have not realized the above ideas are PATHOLOGICALLY INSANE….sigh….ah, well, Christ had the same problem 2,000 years ago, they killed Him for daring to teach us how to stop hating and love each other, so who am I to argue?

    “Against ignorance, even the gods battle in vain” (Shakespeare)

  224. TeacherVet Says:

    Having watched debates on all the TV networks, and having read comments on numerous Bush-hating and Kerry-hating sites, I have reached a conclusion that is not “debate”able: Democrats are winners! They are more abusive in their language, they are more insulting, they interrupt more often, they are more evasive, they hate with more enthusiasm, they repeat their few talking points with greater frequency, and they certainly yell more loudly. I guess they are winners.

    I can match the Democrats in one area – I am filled with hatred for John Kerry; however, it has nothing to do with politics, but is intensely personal. I was in the U.S. Air Force in 1971 when he gave his “testimony” before Congress, and I will never forgive him. That testimony and his interaction with the communist government of Hanoi, while our men were still being killed (and while he was still in the Naval Reserves), were in direct violation of several provisions of the Code of Military Justice, some of which were punishable by death.

    Kerry managed to avoid justice because of fear that prosecution would only further inflame the existing public unrest and division of that time… ironically, a societal environment for which he was greatly to blame. He should have been prosecuted, convicted, and executed. Instead, he was excused, and his traitorous actions have now been spun into an act of heroism for his “courage” in speaking out against that war.

    In 2002, his party suffered a tremendous defeat in the mid-term elections, and that resulted in the formation of a concerted, well-orchestrated effort to divide the American public. Our grandchildren will almost surely read that same analysis in their history books in a couple of decades… if we can somehow survive this debacle. The effort was of such great importance to the leaders of today’s Democratic Party that the certain resultant effect of emboldening our nation’s enemies, and consequently resulting in additional deaths of our service men and women, was inconsequential; perhaps, it seems, even beneficial.

    If the Iraq War can be compared with Vietnam, as the great Ted Kennedy is obviously want to do, that is the parallel. Luckily for the Democratic Party, they still have an experienced leader in their quest for division in America; John Kerry. This wonderful leader has already beaten George Bush in one important area; Bush was acclaimed as a “uniter, not a divider,” but, as Kerry gloated this week, Bush was unable to unite a country when opposed by a sincere, aggregated effort to fight unity. The “great divider” won that battle, and we are NOT better off for it.

    I credit John Kerry with the deaths of thousands of my comrades in Vietnam, as well as millions of South Vietnamese within months after that war ended. I credit George Bush with more than a thousand service deaths in the effort to rid the world of a dictator who was financing and harboring terrorism. I credit John Kerry with many of those same service deaths in his familiar role of aiding and abetting the enemy.

    Bush “appears” to have a bulge under his coat, so we shouldn’t trust him, eh? Kerry conspired with the enemy in Hanoi, and continued to do so for two decades in Congress, but we can trust him, right? Bush evaded the draft, using his connections to get into the Guard; and that is bad! Aristocrat Kerry’s attempt at deferrment was rejected, so he also joined the Guard, later “volunteering” to go to Vietnam as skipper of a Swift Boat because they were not involved in combat at that time; and that is good!

    Kerry’s only strengths are his remarkable knack for instilling blind hatred in the masses and his ability to spin in the manner of a dishonest lawyer. Oh, I forgot to give him credit for the recently trained, disengenuous facial expressions. In the words of Mrs. Cheney after he violated her family privacy, “This is not a good man.” In the words of a man who came out of the U.S. Air Force to be falsely called a baby killer by a university professor (me), “I hate his guts.”

  225. Bushinenergizer Says:

    All American: I do understand what you meant what happened 6,000 years ago…and there were Wars back then…but just remember Bush is not Jesus, and definetely not God…he is not. Period. He is just a normal, irrationale person who is misguided. I understand to beat all Evildoers out there in the World including the Terrorists. But you are forgetting (that is if you are a Religious Christian), is this: trust and have faith in God to take care of this problem.

    If you are a Religious Person, you may remember the most important in the Commandents of all: “Love thy Neighbour as you would do yourself”. Iraq is our Neighbour (pretty far I might say, but they are still people there)…we must love them as we would love ourselves. We cannot just go around killing them (Civilain People and Innocent People including Women and Children). As matter as fact, Bush is OFF TARGET when it comes to the Terrorists, it is like shoot blanks in the dark, not knowing who you are shooting at. They would find themselves in greater turmoil in having found out that they had killed Women and Babies in that process and to call them “Collateral Damage”. Bush Administration and the Military are not very precise, right on Target on the Terrorists, they just bomb out of that town in Fallujah, and the next door neighbours got killed in that process. I understand your purpose is to abolish the Terrorists off the Earth, but we’ve got to remember the Golden rule…Love thy Neighbour as you would do yourself. We need to seek Peace NOW. We cannot question ourselves to do what we think is right, we have to go by what God thinks is right for you and for your sake. Just remember BUSH is NOT GOD OR JESUS…in fact he is not loving his Neighbours, he is pushing away all the Alliances, the UN Nations, everybody and he thinks he is RIGHT in everything…Born again Christian he may be, but he does not even go to Church himself!! How are we to say that he is right to take War in Iraq? Why did he forget about Afghanistan and move quickly to Iraq and let BIN LADEN escape…you tell me…if your purpose is to kill the Terrorists and yet you support BUSH and he did not do that in fact he let him escape. Kerry had said in all of his Debates that he will KILL all the TERRORISTS, period and he will do so hitting them HARD than Bush ever did. Bush is too soft when it comes to Terrorists…in fact Bush is releasing Enemy Combatants to Saudi Arabia…they may be innocent, but some of them might just come back to kill us all.

  226. Bushinenergizer Says:

    TeacherVet: The question is if you are indeed a Vietnam Veteran, you should have witnessed the horrors and the killings of Women and Children in Vietnam. That is a fact. No BUTS or IFs…Kerry was there and witnessed it. If you did not witnessed the horrors of the War, then you were probably weren’t there. We have seen pictures of the Horrors in Vietnam and we have to remember that 58,000 American Soldiers died in the name of this Vietnam War. It is better if we leave the Past to be the Past. Why are the Swift Boat for Vets and Bush Administration keep on bringing up Vietnam and Kerry? He is distrubing the dead. As matter as Fact, Bush never did Vietnam Service at all, and even did not witness the horrors and killings in Vietnam, what is Bush to say he is Right? Kerry saw something horreous and that is the Fact. Face these Facts, Most of the Vietnam Veterans do not want to remember these horrible things, they even have nightmares every night, even sleeping beside their Wives, and one of them would pull out a knife waking up and it was his Wife beside him, and He thought it was the Vietamense Soldier creeping on him. Scary isn’t it? The Wife divorced him, because she was fearful that the next time won’t be so lucky.

  227. Bushinenergizer Says:

    We also need to remember the cause to why American Soldiers kill themselves in USA and even killing their Wives? We have to do something about that. I don’t know if it was due to Malaria Pills, or they are just going crazy. Even the Soldiers are refusing the Mission because they were not properly protected with the equipment that they need the most to protect themselves. Imagine walking through the streets naked, that is what they felt. In these Dangerous Streets of Iraq, even so severe that these Soldiers will get shot in an instant.

    Let’s not forget the Iraqi Children with missing arms/legs…even lost their entire family…their mother and father…brothers and sisters…it was due to Bush’s and the Military bombings in Iraq. And all they said “Thank you?”…Thank you? for killing their Parents? I don’t know how a 7 or 8 years old would say that, perhaps they got a gun to their heads to say these things…or they are confused. Thank you for Liberating my Country and now my Parents are Dead? I know alot of Kids don’t say these things…in fact they love too much and love their Mother and Father so much…they are the only ones that they grew up with and being nurtured…and taught their morale and values…and now they are all orphaned. Almost 1/2 of Iraq Children are Orphaned. I was disgusted to see a Picture on the News to see a 8 month old Baby injured and then died from these Bombs in Fallujah. His Eye was pulled out, all bloody body, Head was missing some and his brain was oozing out of his head…I don’t know how Bush can say these things are Right? If Kerry was against these things, surely he will make sure the Civilian People including Women and Children will not die in the path of this Iraq War. Kerry had said he will take it to the TERRORISTS, not innocent People! If he was against the stuff in Vietnam, then he will try his best to protect the Iraqi People including our own.

  228. TeacherVet Says:


    You are free to believe every word spoken by John Kerry, but don’t waste our time simply repeating all of his lies from the debates. I taped all 4 debates, and have watched them repeatedly.

    Please don’t even bother to describe the physical nature of the dead infant if you support the killing of unborn infants via partial birth abortion… unless you have witnessed the brutality yourself. In most instances, it makes the dead child you described look subtle. Of course, the doctors try to keep the extracted parts intact so they can be sold as “spare parts.”

    My sister was encouraged to have an abortion (3 years ago) to save her own life three months before giving birth to a Trisomy 18 baby. I also wanted her to have one, so obviously I believe it is appropriate under special circumstances, but she refused. Little Shelby Grace Lee lived 5 days, and we have beautiful memories of a wonderful little human being. My sister is fine; The doctors were wrong – does that mean they lied? Surely Little John could find some grounds to sue her doctor for a few million bucks.

    I’ll get back to you on the rest of the Kerry garbage.

  229. TeacherVet Says:


    There were incidents such as My Lai during the Vietnam War, but they were certainly not rampant. I never witnessed such an atrocity, but neither did any of the hundreds of veterans I have known over the years. Kerry only witnessed the one incident, which he admitted doing himself, according to his testimony. He based his testimonial “facts” on stuff he had been told by “veterans” at the Winter Soldier meetings, most of who were never even in Vietnam combat situations. Kerry’s distant past is the most important part of his life because it defined who he is today.

    His lies before Congress were numerous, but I’ll not address all of them in this writing.

    Agent Orange stories were myths. Kerry and his merry band of cowardly liars claimed that it destroyed the land and turned the countryside into a “moonscape.” Not true. It simply turned the leaves brown so they shriveled up, exposing the enemy for a brief period of time. His “witnesses” testified that the area sprayed was left dripping with the chemical, and clothing of people caught in the spray would be soaked in it. The truth; it was sprayed at the rate of 3 gallons per acre, with only 6% of that reaching the ground after settling on leaves and branches in the dense foliage combined with it’s incredibly fast rate of evaporation. The active ingredient consisted of .0002 of 1% of the mixture. It was extremely effective, immediately reducing casualties by more than 600%.

    Some “veterans” testified that they were covered by this orange liquid; but, Agent Orange was colorless, named for the orange stripe around the barrel. It was odorless and tasteless, contrary to testimony given by many false, ignorant “veterans” who tried to use it in various court scenarios to escape punishment for their violent behavior years after the war ended. The myth was used by Kerry’s VVAW to bring attention to them and their cause. They claimed that Agent Orange created a moonscape that would not grow back in a thousand years; but, in fact, it killed only the leaves, not trees or plants. Complete re-growth usually occurred within 6 weeks. Kerry’s bunch claimed that it was killing innocent civilians; but, in fact, later studies of the men who spread the stuff, the Ranch Hands, revealed that they and their offspring had no negative physical or emotional effects above the norm of society in general. They actually drank the stuff to initiate and quell the fears of new Ranch Hands, and they were often drenched in it after shells ruptured the orange-striped drums during delivery (they flew at very low altitudes because of the fast rate of evaporation). Perhaps John Kerry didn’t know the facts, as he didn’t know the rules appropriate to a “free-fire zone.”

    Are you sure the graphic photo of the little girl was accurately portrayed? Walter Kronkite used a similar photo of a naked little South Vietnamese girl whose clothes had been burned from her body in a napalm attack as an example of America’s “indiscriminate” napalming of civilians in his video history series on the Vietnam War. However, there were no American planes involved, and no American ground troops in the area. It happened when almost all American combat units had been withdrawn, but it was a useful tool in convincing the world that America was a “bad” country. The photo may be real, but there is ample reason to question its authenticity.

    Posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) was no more common than in World War II or any other conflict, but it was seized by Kerry as another tool for his use. His lies on the topic were effective, as evidenced by your belief in the myth. There are some well-publicized cases of “combat veterans” who have had terrible flashbacks, nightmares, etc., but the percentage of sick people is equal in all parts of our society. Most of those “emotionally damaged vets” have been proven as fakes – sick men who never saw combat in Vietnam. The story isn’t colorful after the facts are known, so retractions are NEVER publicized. A great example is Dan Rather’s “The Wall Within,” a 1988 hour-long documentary about PTSD, ascribing its symptoms to hundreds of thousands of Vietnam vets. To synopsize, six vets gave horror stories of how their nightmares, flashbacks, hallucinations, abusive behavior, and addictions ruined their lives and the lives of their wives and children as well.

    Public records debunked every story, even proving that the men were not combat vets, and most never even went to Vietnam. They made up the stories so they could gain about $3,000 in monthly tax-free compensation for their PTSD illness. The story was pure fiction, but Rather stood by it because it was believed by “a vast majority of our viewers.” Sound familiar? To quote Dan Rather, “It’s the ratings, stupid, don’t you know? They’ve got us putting more fuzz and wuzz” on the air so news can compete with entertainment programs for “dead bodies, mayhem, and lurid tales.”

    PTSD was invented by VA Center psychiatrists to bolster their patient load, which was decreasing due to the passage of time after WWII and the Korean War. It was a job security issue, and the myth was picked up by Kerry to further his own cause. Again, perhaps he was simply ignorant.

    Another convenient myth available for Kerry to lie about was the “minority myth.” He testified that blacks died in greater numbers than whites, having been used as “cannon fodder” by America. During the 10-year period of Vietnam, black males comprised 13.5% of all draft-aged males. They accounted for 12.5% (7,257) of the KIAs, and almost all of those killed were volunteers in elite units, not reluctant draftees involuntarily assigned to combat units. Blacks were not there because our evil government drafted them out of the ghettos to use as targets; they were there because of the courage and patriotism of young black men, despite the fact that they lived in a country where they often experienced racism. 75% of black men who served in Vietnam volunteered to go.

    John Kerry’s effectiveness at lies and exaggerations in the early 1970s provided the experience he needed to represent today’s Democratic Party, and, once again, he is blindly followed by the sheep who believe his every word. He was a coward and a liar more than 30 years ago, and he remains a sniveling coward today. Kerry will not sign a Standard Form 180 because it includes the evaluation calling him a “maverick” who required “constant supervision.” Of course we need to consider the positive; if he is elected unfortunate people will “get out of those wheelchairs and walk again.”

    By the way, every soldier in Iraq and Afghanistan has been provided with body armor. There is a higher quality suit available, but of course John Kerry voted against it. As in 1971, an increased body count is an important tool in his personal quest.

    If nearly 1/2 of Iraq children are orphaned, it would follow that we have killed nearly 1/2 of the adults in the country. Surely you can see a problem with your numbers.

    Sorry for going on and on, and for perhaps getting off the point. Perhaps I have something in common with Kerry.

  230. John Callender Says:

    So, you’re asserting that free-fire zones didn’t exist?

  231. TeacherVet Says:

    No, I didn’t say that. Free-fire zones were areas in which you could return fire or attack a suspected enemy without getting permission to do so. Kerry had the mistaken notion that “free-fire” meant you were free to fire at anyone you saw. The zones were quite active with civilians during the day, and those civilians were quite aware of the danger of venturing into those areas after dusk. Most of the troops in those areas never even heard of anyone who abused the policy against civilians, but most of them know of comrades who died because they still exercized caution – trying to ascertain a real enemy, in an effort to avoid civilian casualties. It was not void of rules of engagement.

  232. Patrioticstatesman Says:

    You bunch of dumbies. The country is at war. Bush is a prime target of those bastards. Whatever our government does to protect his life is nobodies business. It’s a wartime secret. So quit crying. Kerry is going to lose and you can all go back to being pot smoking, lying, cheating, double talking, losers.

  233. Patrioticstatesman Says:

    Hey dumbass, the bulge IS a transmitter! It’s there to protect his life. We ARE at war even if you don’t approve of it. Some things are bigger than you all.


  234. Enlightened Says:

    Why do people see a change in the national debt from a projected (in 2010) SURPLUS of $5.6 TRILLION to a $5.2 TRILLION DEFICIT (in 2014) as beneficial to America? Why are we paying $2 per gallon of gas when they were only approaching $1 at the end of 2001? Why are we paying many times more in 2004 what we were paying for the same health care benefits in the late 1990’s?? Why did the budgets for health, welfare and education get drastically slashed while the budget for “defense” explode to over $400 billion? If you want to scare the population into “supporting” their troops and “president”, “waging a war on terrorism” would be a good way to take most of the easily persuadable population’s focus off the horrible economy to put little American flags in their car windows and put “anti-bin laden” and “proud to be American” bumper stickers on their bumpers. WOW! What patriotism! “King George” was gung-ho to fight during Vietnam… since HE didn’t have to go. No witnesses to h
    im EVER appearing on his assigned base the last two YEARS of his “service.” He was happy to declare war on an already war-ravaged country before international sanctions and inspections were maintained for the agreed upon periods. A War-mongering free-spending Republican who claims that Kerry voted in favor of a 50-cent per gallon (gasoline) tax… well, so did many other concerned representatives from our senate and congress. Nevermind the DOLLAR per gallon increase is PURE PROFIT for the oil industry (George’s family source of wealth). Whatever Kerry did, he SERVED his country, WENT to the war, and, had the integrity to speak against the war WITH MANY other Veterans. WHY are people so dense to see the greatest terror is another four years with the neo-nazi values of George Bush?
    Abortion, Race, Gay Rights, Marriage priveleges – these are all subterfuge while George & Co. are raping the country ecologically, financially and creating a debt that was being corrected when he was placed in office against the wishes of the majority of Americans. I haven’t seen ONE article/response, on this site, from one non-American supporting the BUSHIT we’re drowning in. NOT ONE! If these people, who don’t even live under this regime, express their concern, outrage and condolences, don’t you supporters think something must be amiss?? Maybe the “Homeland Security Act” will reach into your home and allow officials to arrest and detain you WITHOUT due cause or process. THAT IS WHAT IT IS FOR… read the history of Nazi and Russia. Your support for Bush represents your agreement to that and other similar atrocities. IF you believe in God, pray forgiveness for your ways and blindness to your narrow-minded behavior. VOTE for those who would best benefit Americans as a
    nation, not the elite society versus the working class and poor. Then again, maybe you could just try taking ginkgo biloba (helps mental alertness). Of course, the AMA will make fun since it doesn’t entail surgery and/or major drugs. The list goes on, but if you can’t see the obvious, why bother with the less obvious. Best Wishes to John Kerry – Save us from King George!

  235. Anon Says:

    Where is the love people? Gosh, u americans are appearing stupider everyday. Save face and bring about a change in government. please?
    civil rights are going out the window. people are being judged on looks and freedoms are being revoked? Born free? Not in america anymore. Born in chains at the mercy of the governement who thinks it is God or at least speaks for God.


    I cant wait for the elections. it will be more fun than survivor all stars. I hope bush gets dethroned. But at least if he wins i can console myself that i am not living in the good old US of A and that I was born an African. A part of africa with no oil so that we cant be target for money hungry leaders like George (1 Watt) Bush.

    here in south africa people are denied visitors visa to the US on just the way they LOOK!!!!! You people might think u are winning some kind of battle in Iraq and Afghanistan, but u are losing a war right across the world.

    Amanda, u are a fool. Accept it.

  236. Leberwurst Says:

    I totally agree with All-American’s comment from October 17, 2004 @ 2:38 pm. How very true and very sad! It really seems to be about the super-rich and them making more money. They want to stay on top and that is all they care about. I so often wonder how USA can be in such a bad state, having so many poor and homeless people, but all your government is interested in is spending millions on wars for bullshit reasons. Whoever believes all that crap that they are saying, should start thinking more clearly. Or get yourself copies of television speeches from the past years and see for yourself how often they change their stories.
    I like Anon am looking forward to the election on 2 November. I am also glad that I am not a US citizen. However that doesn’t change the fact that I am hoping for the best. Not just for you and your fellow americans, but for the rest of the world too. What America is doing as “leader of the world” “world police” etc is damaging relationships between the muslim world and the western world for ALL OF US!!! Regarding Anon’s comment about some people not being let into America because of the way they look reminds me of a documentary I saw on television about a muslim man who was arrested on charges of aiding terrorists and was sent to Guantanemo for interrogation. After spending TWO YEARS there they decided he was innocent. Good for him, he got to go home. And was sent home with hand- and footcuffs in the aeroplane. Good way to treat an innocent man don’t you think. Disgusting!

  237. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Gel: You go F*** yourself!! There is proof you discriminate, discriminate, discriminate without knowing who the person is…in fact you cannot see me, I am a total stranger to you! How the hell you think I am retarted? I may have grammatical problems, because you are an Idiot!! I am a Deaf Person, you idiot!! Is that how you do this in every day life? Discriminate, discriminate???

    As fact I am a Deaf Person, takes a smarter level to your “supposed level”. We are very much the same if I weren’t Deaf! It takes a greater and smarter Person to learn all this Political Crap! It takes a Deaf Person to see right through Bush (Dubya) even though if I cannot hear him, I can see right through him! If you close your eyes and hear him, I mean really closely hear him, you can hear his distortion of blahhahahahahahhaha….but even louder, geee…it is embarrassing for a President to speak Loud in his Debates…what is he– Deaf? LOL no wonder he needs an ear piece! Its probably an hearing aid!! Oh yes, he cannot even hear himself..mmmmm you got me!!

    If you cannot even get me, as per my poor grammatical problems, how do you suppose to follow Bush as he cannot even follow through the words or cannot read? In fact, I read everything every day…to build up my widsom and knowledge…it just in fact makes you smaller, isn’t it?? Gee, Smallness of George W Bush….exactly my thought!!
    Gel, go play your Phonics and really listen…I mean really listen. As least I can spell the words correctly! There ya go…go take a crap somewhere else where it does not belong!

    I hope you will have a nice Life, and in USA, there is proof enough that the USA is not united, but rather divisive more than ever and you are the cause of it all by voting Bush! Don’t come back complaining of what you are not getting in these Programs, but better yet, pay up more $$$$ if Bush were to be elected. Shhhhhhhh….!!!!! Don’t complain at all…can you do that in the next four more years??? Hell, I can complain anytime I want, because I don’t vote for Bush. LOL Geeshhhhh Discrimination never stops…speak NOW against Discrimination!!!

  238. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Teacher Vet: You have not answered my question: “Do you think the History Books on Vietnam is all a lie??? or fabricated in some sort?” and “Do you think the real Documentary Films on Vietnam is doctored?”

    Yes, we keep on bringing up the Vietnam era, because the Repulicons and the Swift Boats for Veterans paid by the Republican Party, had brought the whole thing up to start out with. They had begun the converstation so we shall finish it for all of them!

    The very question you should ask yourselves : “Why did Bush go War in Iraq when he did not even go into Vietnam Service?” “What are he is to say he is right about War?” He cannot even experience first hand what it is really like over there…the Killings, the bloodshed…the never ending War that will never stop for generations and generations to come…as matter as fact, Bush had opened a can of worms!! and there is no way of stopping it now….(sorry fellas, this is what we are faced with today…face it). We will never finish it…in fact new Terrorists are coming onto the list every day, even Kids ages 8 to 12 training to become Terrorists!!! Sad isn’t it?

    We can stop all this crap with Peace solutions and it will be Kerry and he is the Answer!! He will bring all the UN Nations and the Alliances together, not divided, but rather united!! He shall will seek to finish the Mission and take it to the Terrorists themselves, not innocent Civilian People…babies, Children dead every day…gesshhh!! Have you had any decency towards Babies being killed in Iraq? If you have room in your Heart, vote for a change and it is now! Kerry may not be much of a Person, in fact no one knows about him all that much, it means a very boring and humble person to make an effective President!! A Bold and Arrogant President today like Bush is a dangerous President!! (too wreckless and rushed War too quickly without humbleness and thought). We need someone who can really “think” and “plan” and to draw up a Plan to win the Peace in that same process. Is that so hard? Don’t you want Peace in this World??? Where is that Love??? It is all gone!! We
    can bring it back and revive Peace and Love!!!! Make Love, Not War!!!! Peace and Out! Vietnam War stopped and all went on Normal Lives again, we can make that happen again if we were to stop this War! We will lead a normal, peaceful Life, earning some Income for our Families at home and put food on the Dinner Table, having a roof over our heads and to Pray for the best!!!

  239. Ponyboy Says:

    Ever stop to think (probably not, you’re republican)that Bushinenergizers’native language isn’t english? Just because he wouldn’t get a C+ in grammer doesn’t give you the right to belittle him. Typical conservative: ignore the points he makes, and try to make fun of him to get away from the issues.

  240. anthy Says:

    That’s a good point Ponyboy, besides, who exactly are Bushies to be picky on grammar? Check out if you haven’t already. Our commander in chief sends clearly mexed missages whenever he opens his mouth. Very many phrases, perhaps most of his phrases, come out incomplete and are non-sensical. It is up to each viewer to guess from his expressions what it is that he is trying to say. Bringing us back to the hearing receiver topic: Bush needs help when he is on stage! He has always received help on stage, and what’s more, he hates public speaking. He set the record for the fewest press conferences of any president, since the advent of TV. Why does he still want the job of US president? He keeps complaining that it’s hard work.

  241. anthy Says:

    Wow, a very comprehensive and conclusive (end all argument) link about Kerry’s Mary Cheney comment:
    Check it out!!

  242. TeacherVet Says:

    Sorry it took me so long to get back. We had a family emergency. My mother-in-waw has Alzheimer’s, and we are the only family she has left… so she has to take priority.

    This is a sincere question, not a rhetorical one. Where are the history books that factually credit Agent Orange with deaths in Vietnam? I will buy those books and read them thoroughly, but only after confirming that the authors were not among the protesting element of that era… If they were, their words can only be a continuation of false propaganda. It was easy and convenient to spread the myth, and the effort was so successful that it is still ingrained as fact in most minds today. The philosophy of Josef Goebbels was exercized to perfection, that being that “a lie, repeated often enough, becomes accepted as fact.” That philosophy is being used with great success by John Kerry each day, and he is proving the Goebbels theory.

    My arguing points are primarily based on personal experience and observation, so that propaganda is minimized in the formation of my opinions. I do a tremendous amount of reading on both sides of every issue, but I am able to discount information that is contradicted by my own experiences. I have never done drugs, and I have not had a beer since my daughter was born (adopted) 26 years ago, so I don’t think my observations were illusional.

    RE the abortion issue: Roe v Wade will never be overturned, so the only real issue is methodology. Partial birth abortion is cruel and unusual, and unnecessary in almost all instances. As stated previously, I even encouraged abortion in an extreme case when my sister faced death if she gave birth to a Trisomy 18 baby, and I would have understood it (for the same reasons you gave earlier in your own family) if my 16-year-old niece had chosen that route. I understand that there are exceptions to almost every “rule,” but I strongly disagree with an all-encompassing law that allows the killing of our young indiscriminately only to encompass exceptional circumstances. To call it “women’s rights” is a misnomer. It continues without restraint for many invalid reasons, including, but not limited to: 1) profit by lobbyists, physicians, individuals who sell the body parts, and others and 2) the overwhelming effort by politicians to create a society in which there are no consequenc
    es for behavior. I have some personal experience with extreme liberal societies, since my father’s homeland was Holland.

    My comments have been enterpreted as pro-Bush, and I certainly do lean that way; but I am tremendously anti-Kerry, and that is the basis of all my arguments. The man is an utter and complete fraud, but he can talk his way through anything. He volunteered to go to Vietnam after his deferrment was denied, but we went there as a protester in a non-combattant role. By his own admission, he killed at least 3 civilians and one injured enemy combattant, and burned a village. Those were HIS CHOICES. I was taught in basic training that there were specific instances in which given orders could be refused, including orders that resulted in personal moral conflicts and violations of conventional warfare. John Kerry was an officer, and I know he was given the same instructions. Probably upset after being thrust into a combattant role against his plans, he CHOSE to commit war crimes and atrocities. Later, he also chose to endanger the lives of the men he abandoned to establish hims
    elf as an anti-war politician, both in the protest movement and in his consorts with the Communist government of Hanoi. Still later, as head of the committee to investigate POW/MIA personnel still in Vietnam, he took action to ensure that none of those men could ever be recovered, pushing for normalization of relations with his friends in Hanoi. That is not “spin,” although synopsized, but is all part of the Congressional record.

    He had to pull out of his first run for government after realizing that his radical anti-war was deemed inappropriate even by the people in Massachusetts, so he “changed his image” to fit the electorate. Sound familiar? He didn’t change his character, as has been evidenced throughout his 20 years in the Senate, but he correctly realized that his electorate cares more about “appearance” than anything else.

    I am sick of his blatant lies and accusations. He will say anything to get elected, and his rhetoric certainly does change to fit the audience. He has NO core beliefs. Lest we forget, my neighbor Mr. Gore told us just a couple of days before the 2000 election that if George W. Bush was elected “black churches are going to burn” and implied that blacks would find themselves living in an environment reminiscent of the 1950s. For awhile, that made classroom life difficult for this teacher in a community with almost a 40% black population. Now, as then, many good citizens still believe everything that is spoken by another disengenuous jerk in quest of his personal goal.

    I am equally sick of his false promises. It is mathematically impossible for Kerry to keep his promises. He and his party have “owned” the minority vote for at least 40 years by making idle promises, too numerous to list. Every 4 years, they paint a picture of life in the black community as being bleak and hopeless, then promise that 4 years of their leadership will lead them out of the wilderness. 40 years! If any of our past Democrat presidents had kept their promises, they would lose their “ownership” of blacks in the future, so they give just enough to encourage. The only hope for any segment of our society is education. Every student walks into our schools each day with an equal opportunity, but too many of them REFUSE to take advantage. They want a “quick fix,” and education is not a quick process. I have heard far too many of my students tell me “I don’t need an education. I’m gonna sell drugs like my uncle.” Yep, that’s a quick fix.

    Strangely, but fittingly, I just heard John Kerry accuse the Republican party of divisiveness and class warfare. Typical ploy used by attorneys/prosecutors; if you’re guilty of something, accuse the other party. As in court, put the other party on the defense so escape investigation into yourself.

    Kerry is a fraud, a complete fake. He presents himself as a Conservative spender, but the record PROVES otherwise. He is a tough war hero, ready to defend America, but the record PROVES otherwise. He has a plan to have a plan, but the record PROVES that he has no legislative leadership qualities. It is almost laughable, but now he wants to present himself as the great Christian, but, once again, his past behavior PROVES otherwise. He will say anything to gain votes, and he will not allow honesty to get in his way.

    The masses who blindly follow anyone who fuels their hatred remind are epitomized by my Uncle Paul, who has always said that he “would vote for a Hitler and Stalin ticket if they ran as Democrats.” He was in the U.S. Navy, stationed at Pearl Harbor when it was attacked. That seems to be the spirit of almost everyone in the Democratic party today – radical and extreme. The difference; his devotion to the Party was due to his admiration of FDR, while today’s Democrats have simply joined hands in a joint effort of contageous hatred.

    Our old Democratic Party is dead, and that’s sad.

  243. TeacherVet Says:

    Bush…zer, sorry I am so long-winded. I tire of the people who recklessly regurgitate slams, criticisms, accusations, and insults without backing them up.

    In case it got lost in the lengthy rhetoric, I really want to know the history books that give false information….and yes, it is false, according to the very people who profited the most from our use of Agent Orange; the scientists, manufacturers and distributors.

    I am aware of documentaries, but most of them have been thoroughly and completely debunked. University professors are, in great part, the children of former protestors, so I realize from personal experience that they do use materials to support their active agendas.

  244. TeacherVet Says:

    Wow, Anthy, you mean that Dick Cheney actually loves his daughter enough to support her right to make adult choices? I doubt the authenticity of the source because he is certainly not unbiased. Mary’s choice of lifestyle has never been secret, so that is not the issue. The issue is violation of family privacy. Strange how it’s always the same party who violates that privacy.

    Has anyone noticed how brief his (Cheney’s) responses have always been, obviously wishing to express his love for Mary without getting into lengthy discussions about it.

    The statements made by both lawyers (candidates) were obviously planned, and not for positive purposes. Kerry says he was just being a nice guy, but that would be a first, wouldn’t it?

    Perhaps the opposition should be just as mean-spirited. It would be equally appropriate to link the death of John Edwards’ son to his association with the reckless, drug-infested members of the Kennedy clan. They surely won’t do it, because they respect the privacy and the expressed wishes of the Edwards family to remain mum on the subject of theirson’s death.

    Now, express your “aghastness” that anyone would make inferences that are almost surely false.

  245. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Thank you Teacher Vet for your Generosity and I respect your Opinions. Everybody has the right to vote and choose their Candidate and do what they think is right for America…we shall see on November 2nd.

    Are you a Teacher by the way? If so, so you would not teach the Students to go by the History Books or do any research on these topics?? Most teachers I know of, always taught Vietnam and lots of History books to back up the dates, places, and stuff like that. Do you teach by your own philosophy or by the books? I know in the Teacher Guidelines you are not supposed to teach your Opinions to the Students, but rather on the Facts that happened in this World. We live and learn by those just as much you do the reading every day and do believe in the USA Today or New York Times or in whatever Newspapers because most Newspapers has Bias in it and excerpt that does not explain the whole picture, Like people say “A Picture is worth a 1000 Words”. ;)

  246. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Ponyboy and Athany: Yes, I am a Native Indian American too, I have over three different Languages, French, English, Chippewa, oh yes that is now four Languages, Sign Language! Does that make me smarter than Gel? I completed Four Years in College with a Business Administration and Marketing with a GPA average of “B”. Even completed Human Resources Courses…mmm thinking about getting into Politics. I am getting tired of this Politics Crap that they are playing on just like it is a game. It is not a Game! Not when it comes to American People who needs the most- Their Health Care Coverage! Flu Shots…and err Education of course.

    That is the whole point, we can see who is a right Candidate for America. All we saw was a repetitive statements of 9/11 this and 9/11 that…Iraq this and Iraq that…that is what Bush ever talks about! Have you noticed that Bush is not focusing on Programs??? such as Health Care? Education? the Economy? JOBS for People?? Prescriptions?? Social Security???

    No, Bush had increased funds only for HomeLand Security by I believe $2 Billion Dollars, is that all Bush got??? It should have been more than that!! That is cheap stake, only few Billions of Dollars…HomeLand Security costs more than $50 Billion Dollars. I would not be surprised if Kerry will increase double than Bush proposed on his signed Bill….It is too important to protect America on the Homefront!! The Borders and the Cargo Checks are too lax…even one Cuban Woman got through to USA!!! That is a bit scary for me…if she got through, so are the Terrorists!!! They can go through from Cuba, Mexico, even Canada…We got to do more!! Not just focused, focused on Iraq…focused, focused on 9/11…9/11 is a tradegy and will always be a Memorial but Bush should not use that as a fear tactic to American People…He did so by telling People that Kerry is too Lax on Security front, that is not true!! Kerry always repeats that he will do Better than Bush but remain the s
    ame to protect the USA better than Bush, will take it to Terrorists, Kerry also said he will finish the Mission in Iraq, bring Alliances and UN Nations together…united, and strong than ever…that is what we need for America.

  247. anthy Says:

    TeacherVet, it’s always the same party that violates privacy of the family? What about the right-wingers on the Clinton family vs. Monica Lewinsky? Oh yeah, and how they blew up about Clinton smoking pot? There was so much media coverage on both those incidents, and I could think of a few that could get far more coverage by the Democratic party if one is to believe that all this was on display for public decency. The Bush family vs. cocaine abuse.. (This is especially ironic considering Bush senior started the War on Drugs) Bush family vs. alcohol abuse.. Bush’s drunken driving record.. There is so much slander that could have went on in the papers or in court. If Bush were a Democrat, he would have been slammed by the right on so many issues, and impeached.

    I am not saying that democrats are above putting someone down, (I think you should question everyone that has any authority) but I don’t think that Kerry was wrong at all about mentioning Mary. He didn’t say anything negative. I think he was just putting gays in a light that takes the responsibility out of the hands of the gay person (no longer a sinner) and stating that it is indeed something genetic (putting it into the hands of god).

    About John Edwards’ son, I had no idea that he lost a child. I don’t really see how the Conservatives could make this an issue though.

  248. anthy Says:

    Bushinenergizer, you speak four languages? That’s impressive!

  249. All-American Says:

    Hi, everybody…

    I«ve been reviewing the ideas expounded here, and, you know, I became sad…I mean, here we are, people from all over the country (and a few others) with this terrific new thing, the internet…but oh boy do we bicker!

    With all due respect, it is clear that we all have different ideas, because we base them on different information. For instance, TeacherVet claims Agent Orange was not really employed (if I understood you correctly, Teacher…pls forgive me if I didn«t) and that Kerry has no character…while most others “believe” Agent Orange was really used…because we«ve read or watched documentaries or were taught that at school…and some claim Kerry was a good commander…and so forth…

    My points are: 1) Unfortunately, we cannot REALLY know the absolute historic truth! Even for those of us who were there (Teacher)! Of course, he may know some things better than most of us, but again, being an only individual, it is entirely possible that many things happened that he didn«t know either. Millions of people saw the WTC attack, but who can say for sure who did it, how and why?

    As for books, textbooks, photographs…man, I«ve read a book called “1984” by George Orwell…and THAT book shows how much trust you can have on the “media” and on “official versions”…

    So, I really think we should focus a little more on the truths we CAN create, what we can build, what options would allow us to build a better world, and this can only be achieved through a strong political action for better income distribution, better quality of life for everybody – because, NO MATTER WHAT REASONS you may have, or believe you have, to the contrary, the fact is that excessive social inequality (be it between citizens of the same country or between different countries) will always generate tensions.

    People are the same everywhere, even ourselves, if we were hungry or cold or homeless or suffering from poverty (like the thousands of americans who«ve lost their jobs over the past few years, or worse, the 70,000 sudanese – people just like you and me – who are starving to death in camps), and we read – as I did – that that Britney singer is spending $5 million in a wedding party, well, you have to draw the line on “absurd” somewhere, haven«t you?

    AND that brings me to point out that (ok, maybe not the absolute truth, but as far as I can tell) the Bush government took a budget with one of the largest surplus in our History, and turned it into the BIGGEST deficit in WORLD HISTORY, and social conditions are only getting worse, jobs more scarce and low paying, I can only cry about a tremendous opportunity lost – lost, because they capitalized on our fears, they turned us all paranoid, and we let them spend a MONSTRUOUS amount of money – $ 400,000,000,000 (Yes, FOUR HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS)!! for their own pockets, on machines that only kill -murder – people!!

    Ah, sorry, I«m not in a good mood today…like I said, I«m sorry – for all of us…

    My last words for today – Humbly I ask of all who read this: For God«s sake, whatever your political views, DO NOT LET THIS HATE-WAR MADNESS GO ON…

    Thank you all for your attention.

  250. TeacherVet Says:

    Sorry I was unclear, All-American. Agent Orange was definitely used, but only as a defoliant. It was said (by John Kerry and his merry bunch of protestors) to have killed many people and that it was destroying all trees, leaving a “moonscape” that would not grow back for 1,000 years. Both charges were completely bogus. It was not capable of killing people, and it only dried up leaves without killing any plants or trees. It caused leaves to wither, exposing enemy troops. Complete regrowth usually took about 6 weeks, not 1,000 years. All the data is in my post at 2:52 pm on October 16.

    The charges were made by Kerry and his band of idiots as another charge against the U.S. Government. As with every one of his charges, it was completely false. I won’t rehash all the data about his various lies since it is posted on this page, but my point was that he used proven lies to make a name for himself, and his actions were responsible for MANY deaths of our troops in Vietnam. Since he was still in the Reserves he could have been, SHOULD have been, tried, convicted and executed. He has always been a fraud, and the only leadership qualities he exhibited at the time were manifested in developing hatred among masses of people. Obviously, he still has the knack. He was responsible for much of the division in this country more than 3 decades ago, and he has done the same today.

    He is a fraud and a sniveling coward. I will never forgive him for the pain and excessive number of deaths he caused, and I hate him deeply. Forget politics; this is personal. My students would be greatly surprised, because they see me only as a loving man who would do anything for them.

  251. Ponyboy Says:


    Pain an excessive number of deaths that Kerry caused??? You gotta be kidding me! Bush is responsible for thousands of deaths so far and for what? The world is safer? No.

    Why don’t you take a look at your own statement saying that Kerry SHOULD have been tried, convicted and executed. Now why don’t you think that happend? Could it be because the US Army didn’t want to stir that pot up? Why wouldn’t they try him if they had evidence to the contrary of what he was saying? Because they wanted the whole thing to go away, thats why. Because he was telling the truth – something this administration and its supporters know nothing about.

    John Kerry is a man of integrity.

    George W Bush is a lying, deceitful, danger to this world and I can’t wait until Nov 2nd. There will be parties in the streets in cities all around the world, and I will be partying all night long with them!!

    Bush’s days are numbered: 14 Days and counting…..

  252. no50 Says:

    oh, forgot to add, in regard to the wire scandal, does it really surprise any of you that those in power, who wish to remain in power, would use such underhanded techniques? what about securing a thrid party vote in many states to distract undecideds form the opposition? what about shredding voter registrations from members of the opposing party? what abotu a political ally in the manufacturer of the receipt-less electronic voting machines in key swing-states? or, what about flat out lying to the public every chance they get?

    not a surprise at all.

  253. John Callender Says:

    The comments in this fairly interesting (to me, at least) discussion got nuked by a hard drive failure on my server; basically everything posted here between last Saturday and yesterday afternoon was lost. I’m currently working on restoring the comments from backup.

    Sorry about the inconvenience.


  254. Ponyboy Says:

    No problem John – It is an interesting, healthy debate.

  255. John Callender Says:

    Okay. I think the comments are all back now, at least on this item. Let me know if you notice anything wacky.


  256. Bushinenergizer Says:

    I agree with PonyBoy, Bush is far greater dangerous to all of us in America…he had unleashed more anger and hostility in all of the Terrorists, more than ever. The Terrorists are grinding their teeth right now and thinking up of a greatest Plan to kill everyone in this World…Bush had declared War in Iraq, and in Iraq alone, he had caused between 37,000 to 60,000 Iraqi People dead, children included also dead…Women dead…and also Bush’s Own American Soldiers are dead over 1,200 and climbing…and that does not include the numbers in Afghanistan.

    Teacher Vet, you say that there was an excessive number that Kerry had caused in Vietnam War, tell me the number of it, just remember it WAS the Vietnam War going on, not Kerry’s War. Kerry just spoke of the truth and not afraid to tell the truth. Kerry does not tell lies the way Army wants him to cover up. Bush is known to cover up mistakes, cover up Intelligence, cover up his lies when it comes to WMD’s, the real reason going into Iraq. Do you remember that Saddam had tried to kill his Father Bush Senior, and that Bush had been known to have a revenge to go get Saddam which had fullfilled his wish and all of a sudden everything stops, and he handed Iraq over to President Allawi, haven’t you noticed that? His main target was Saddam all along…plus installing Halliburton Oil Company, care to explain that one?

    Vietnam War is another tradegy of War, simple as that. No motivation whatsover. It is all about America support to fight against North Vietnamese, but today it is pointless and meaningless. Today, the Vietnamese People get along together on both sides, even moving on with the America People, and Worldwide, they don’t have a grudge against the World, they too said it is just a tradegy of War.

    Now, why do you hate Kerry so much? You went to Vietnam, right for one reason only is to support and showing your Patriotism, not discarding it all together. Kerry did all of his Service, do what he is told, and fullfilled it, he did not discard his position or his post. He went in and out, but in having had witnessed the horrors of Vietnam War, so he told the World what happened in there. Simple as that. If I saw something horrible, I would have spoken up about it. The Military are known to keep things “Top Secret” and “Cover ups”. We probably won’t and never know what they are, must have been more horrible than Kerry had told the World…What are we to say? Saying he is a bad guy? Come on, he is not perfect like us…at least he is telling the truth, he will do as new President, telling the truth. Not like Bush always telling fabricated lies for four years now.

  257. Ponyboy Says:

    11 Days and Counting…


    Bye-bye son-of-a-bitch!

  258. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Bush better be gone! He should have been impeached during his four years…He is the WORST President and Bush will be named the
    “Worst President ever in History” in the History Books!!

    It won’t be long…very few days and counting…Bush will be packing his bags all the way back to Crawford and start drinking again!!!

    Anti-Bush American Voters will be very upset if Bush is to be elected four more years. Four more years of Bush? I cannot even stand looking at him anymore…just makes me sick to my stomach, four more years of what? More lies? More Deaths? More chaos? More diversion in America? There is no Peace Loving in America no more!! We need the Peace and Stability back to America and it is NoW!

  259. TeacherVet Says:

    37,000 to 60,000 Iraqi deaths? I am greatly surprised that the number is not much higher. If our troops had not shown great mercy, the number would obviously have been much higher.

    Civilian deaths in a war conducted in a country where the vast majority of civilians live in densely populated urban areas? Of course there were civilian deaths. It was popular a few months ago to assert that the civilian population was actually targeted, but that was a ridiculous and completely erroneous claim by Bush-haters.

    Is the world a safer place now? Not a single attack in this country since 9/11, and because of the communication enabled by the Patriot Act, it has been reported by Homeland Security that we have discovered and broken up plans for terrorist attacks at the average rate of about one each day. Iraq is not a safer place yet, but Iraq is not The World. Acts of terror have diminished GREATLY in Israel since the funds and rewards from Saddam have been stopped. The center of most terrorist activity is now centered in Iraq, and I prefer it that way.

    Bush wanted revenge against Saddam for the attack on his father? If you remember, that was the reason President Clinton gave for his bombing of the aspirin factory there. If someone had tried to kill my own father, and the U.N. had not shown the guts to do anything about it, I do not have to wonder how I would have handled it.

    Halliburton? The criticisms of using them are ridiculous. Someone please give me the name of another company that wanted the job of reconstruction. President Clinton also used Halliburton for the same job in at least 2 of his own nation-building efforts, and he hired them without taking bids. Where were the complaints? I don’t care who used to be on the board of Halliburton, since they are the only company willing and capable of the job.

    John Kerry DID NOT complete his service. His request for deferment was rejected, so he “volunteered” for service as a swift boat skipper at a time when he thought it was completely safe; swift boats were not used in combat areas at the time. His family connections were at least as influential as Bush’s, but he wants us to believe otherwise.

    His visit to Hanoi was deplorable and illegal, and the violation was even more serious since he was still in the Reserves. By his own words, he violated several Articles of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), including at least 2 that carried the death penalty. Those crimes carry no statute of limitations, and if he were tried and convicted by his own words, I would gladly volunteer for his firing squad.

    Kerry testified that probably about 3,000 South Vietnamese would have to be RELOCATED if we pulled out of Vietnam. Fact: Within a few months after we pulled out, about 1,200,000 were EXECUTED by his friends from Hanoi. Just a tremendous miscalcution, or ignorance and apathy? Probably all of the above.

    Kerry tried to avoid service as a protestor, it is well documented that he served as a protestor, and he provided aid and comfort to the enemy while they were still killing our troops as a protestor. It is his character, and even the deaths of several thousand American troops and 1.2 million of our allies are unimportant – if they provide a backdrop for attaining his personal goal of public exposure in the political arena.

    Yes, they failed to pursue prosecution, not wanting to stir that pot up – and they certainly wanted it all to just go away. Unfortunately, or perhaps thankfully, it will not go away until those of us who were personally harmed by his actions are all dead. I’m sure many of you are anxious for that day.

    The Vietnamese people on both sides get along well today? The South Vietnamese who survived the massive slaughter certainly have reason to keep quiet, but surely that does not imply that they are content in a hopeless situation. The simple act of speaking out, which we take for granted in this country, results in certain death for entire families.

    I still want the name of a single history book that attributes human death to the use of Agent Orange, written by someone who is not trying to advance an anti-war agenda. I am opposed to war, as were all of the legendary military leaders including George S. Patton, but we have to recognize reality when it smacks us in the face… or in the twin towers.

    We were attacked, and war was declared on us. Our own declaration of war was a RESPONSE. I repeat, WE WERE ATTACKED, and we declared war on terrorism, including any nation that supports or harbors terrorists. Iraq was certifiably a haven for terrorists before our preemptive strike against them, and their leader was providing financial incentives to homicide-bombers in Israel and other friendly nations. As a result of the Iraq War, the borders of Iran and other terrorist-harboring countries are isolated from each other, so their effectiveness is greatly diminished. They are desperate to recover Iraq for obvious reasons; physical isolation. They certainly recognize that their only hope is a divided America, one that will become discouraged enough to result in our abandonment of Iraq. It was a tremendous chessboard-like strategy.

    They can only recover hope if we elect a leader who will lead the cave-in. John Kerry’s only historical leadership qualities are in the areas of divisiveness, and he is leading in that endeavor today. You may not like George Bush’s ears, and you may hate his inability to use the rhetoric of a crooked lawyer, but I know exactly where he stands on every issue.

    Where will John Kerry stand on ANY ISSUE on November 3rd? I doubt that even he knows. When I see him posing with a gun on a hunting expedition, spouting phrases about the greatness of God and His influence on his life, I can believe only one thing – he will say and do anything to be elected.

  260. TeacherVet Says:


    NAME: John Kerry

    EXPERIENCE: Law Enforcement. In my career as a U.S. Senator, I’ve voted to cut every law enforcement, CIA, and Defense bill. I ordered the city of Boston to remove a fire hydrant from in front of my mansion, endangering my neighbors in the event of fire. I served in Vietnam (four months).

    MILITARY: I served in Vietnam (four months). I used three minor injuries to get an early discharge from the military and service in Vietnam (as documented by the attending doctor). I served in Vietnam (four months). I then returned to the U.S., joined Jane Fonda in protesting the war, and insulted returning Vietnam vets, claiming they committed atrocities and were baby killers. I served in Vietnam (four months). I threw my medals, ribbons, or something away in protest. Or did I? My book “Vietnam Veterans Against the War: The New Soldier” shows how I truly feel about the military. I served in Vietnam (four months).

    COLLEGE: I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. Unlike my counterpart, George Bush, I have no higher education and did not get admitted to Harvard nor graduated with an M.B.A.

    PAST WORK EXPERIENCE: After college and Vietnam, I ran for the U.S. Congress and have been there ever since. I have no real world experience except marrying very rich women and running their companies vicariously through them. I served in Vietnam (four months).

    ACCOMPLISHMENTS: As a U.S. Senator I set the record for the most liberal voting record, endorsing liberal spending measures every time it might benefit my political career. I have consistently failed to support our military and CIA by voting against their budgets, thus gutting our countries ability to defend itself. I voted for the Iraq War, but now I am against it and now refuse to admit that I voted for it. I have a plan to have a plan to help this country, and I intend to raise taxes significantly if I am elected. I served in Vietnam (four months).

    My wealth so far exceeds that of my counterpart that he can never ketchup, uh, catch up. I make little or no charitable contributions and have never agreed to pay any voluntary excess taxes in Massachusetts, despite family wealth in excess of $700 million. I served in Vietnam (four months).

    I (we) own 28 manufacturing plants (Heinz) ourside of the U.S. in Asia, Europe and Mexico. We can make more profit from the cheaper cost of labor in those countries, although I blame George Bush for sending other jobs out of the country. I served in Vietnam (four months).

    Although I claim to be in favor of alternative energy sources, Ted Kennedy and I oppose windmills off Nantucket and Martha’s Vineyard as it might spoil our view of the ocean as we cruise on our yachts. I served in Vietnam (four months).

    RECORDS AND REFERENCES: None. However, I served in Vietnam (four months).

    PERSONAL: I practice my Catholic faith whenever cameras are present. I ride a Serotta Bike. I love to ski/snowboard. I call my Gulfstream Jet the “Flying Squirrel.” I call my $850,000 Hinckley twin diesel yacht the “Scarmouche.” I am fascinated by rap and hip-hop and feel it reflects our real culture. I own several large SUVs including one parked at my Nantucket summer mansion, though I am against large, polluting, inefficient vehicles and blame George Bush for our energy problems.

    I have violated almost all the beliefs of my followers, but I have led in the movement to divide this country once again, so they believe in my credibility.

    Oh, did I mention; I served in Vietnam (four months).


  261. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Teacher Vet:

    Glad you have a different Opinion about this whole drama. I respect your views and opinions.

    Now to counteract your views, pardon my french…you say that Civilian Deaths in Iraq is meaningless? Do you have any decency with these deaths who had died within Bush’s Bombings on the very day of Shock and Awe which caused 37,000 Iraqi People including Children and Babies. And the fact that the deaths are climbing every day daily, at least 10 to 20 People on a daily basis today.

    Also you say that the Terrorists are isolated in Iraq? Not true…in fact they are all around the World, even next to you, who knows? The news had reported that the Terrorists are welcoming new sign up, which was 5,000 before, and now recorded of 12,000 new Terrorists had signed up for War on the Infidels, which is USA and Britian, their worst enemy. And they will do ANYTHING, to wage war on them. They are just waiting, and waiting for the right Opportunity. You know how the Volcano works? It is just sitting there, spewing, collecting Ash…then what happens? It burst out in all around the People…all dead. That is the same idea with the Terrorists’ Plan. The fact that nothing happens in 4 years or since 9/11, is not true. Remember Madrid, Spain? Remember Beslan School in Russia? Remember Banglesh? Remember Afghanistan- today with suicide attacks more in Kabul…They are all around the World!! Not just in Iraq…got to remember they may be down south border of Mexico just sitting there, waiting for the right Opportunity to attack…the fact the Borders are very weak…even I can go right through without being flagged.

    Bin Laden is reported hiding in Pakistan…did Bush do anything about him? You tell me.

    Now to answer the other Company that is in Iraq, besides Halliburton, is Betchel Company. That is another name you should look up. They have the same motivation as Halliburton’s.

    Bush had said in his debates, that “Saddam attacked us on USA soil which is not true and has no direct connection to 9/11, period.”

    John Kerry cares more about the American People more than Bush ever did…Bush had ignored the Programs that we need the most….Health Care, Education, the Economy, Job creation…etc…Bush always used 9/11 as a fear factor or a fear tactics to scare People just to ensure his Win for the Election. 9/11 Victims had demanded the Commission Report to be released NOW, which was completed 4 months ago!!! Bush Administration had blocked and sealed the Commission Report, and they had reportly said “Not until after the Election then the report will be released.” The 9/11 Victims are very very angry with that notion and said it was “unfair and unjust for the 9/11 Victims.” I would not be surprised that they will vote for Kerry, because Bush had ignored them time and time again…not addressing their needs and to change according to the Commission Report. The question is why are they blocking and not releasing the Commission Report which was completed 4 months ago…and they said Hey, not until after the Election??? Could it be more damaging in the reports for the Bush Administration??? I would be curious to what is in it.

    Never mind that…just look at the record to what Bush did in Afghanistan and did he catch Bin Laden? and why did he rushed to Iraq so quickly that your eyes cannot even focus on the main priority. Bush’s first priority was Saddam Hussien all along…not Bin Laden.

  262. John Callender Says:

    Uh, TeacherVet, your version of Kerry’s resume is pretty much bullshit.

    You mention 12 times that Kerry served in Vietnam for “four months.” Pretty thorough coverage of his military record there, eh? Well, actually, no. Kerry was on active duty in the Navy for four years, covering two tours of duty. The first tour was spent Stateside, the second was spent in Southeast Asia (because Kerry volunteered for service there). Partway through the second tour, he requested transfer to the Swift boats. After he was captaining a Swift boat, the Navy decided to put them in the Mekong Delta.

    You choose to count the four months Kerry spent on river patrols as the only time he was “in” Vietnam. Well, I guess serving on a ship in the South China Sea technically isn’t being “in” Vietnam, but it’s a misleading assertion on your part to act as if Kerry’s four months on the Mekong were his only military service.

    But those four months were pretty significant months. I know you’ve seen the charts I’ve posted comparing Vietnam and Iraq war deaths; check out the Vietnam graph for late 1968/early 1969. We were averaging more US deaths per month at that time than we’ve had in the entire span of the Iraq war to-date. During those four months, Kerry earned a Silver Star, a Bronze Star, and three Purple Hearts. Yeah, I know you patriotic anti-Kerry folk like to make fun of one of those Purple Hearts, relying on testimony from someone who turns out, on subsequent investigation, not to have a whole lot of credibility. But what about the rest of the medals? Are you saying that the Navy gives out Silver Stars to pretty much anyone who wants one?

    Kerry didn’t “join” Jane Fonda, except in the sense that he was active in Vietnam Veterans Against the War at the same time Fonda was pursuing her own, very different, antiwar activities. Yes, there exists a photograph showing Kerry and Fonda in the same wide-angle shot at an antiwar rally. Nice guilt-by-association, there.

    In your previous bullshit comment (the one before the present bullshit comment), you wrote: “His visit to Hanoi was deplorable and illegal, and the violation was even more serious since he was still in the Reserves.” Uh, you’re either very, very confused, or very, very dishonest. Or both.

    Kerry’s did not visit Hanoi as part of his anti-Vietnam War protesting. He did visit Hanoi more than 20 years later, in 1993, as part of his work as co-chairman (with John McCain) of the Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs. Maybe you’re confusing Kerry, who as part of the anti-war movement was in Paris during the Paris Peace Talks in 1971, with Jane Fonda, who toured North Vietnam in 1972.

    Here, let me help. There’s an easy way to tell Jane Fonda and John Kerry apart. One’s a woman, a former Hollywood starlet who made a lot of money selling workout videos. The other is a man, a decorated war hero, who’s running for president.

    You’re doing a good job of being dishonest in terms of Vietnam. Let’s see how you do in terms of Kerry’s non-military record.


    COLLEGE: I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. Unlike my counterpart, George Bush, I have no higher education and did not get admitted to Harvard nor graduated with an M.B.A.

    PAST WORK EXPERIENCE: After college and Vietnam, I ran for the U.S. Congress and have been there ever since.

    [end quote]

    Kerry’s grades at Yale have never been made public. Do you have a source for the “low C average” thing? I’m betting you don’t. (And no, Rush Limbaugh monologues and FreeRepublic postings don’t count.)

    After returning from the war Kerry did run for Congress. But he lost that race. Afterwards, he attended law school at Boston College, graduating in 1976. (Gee. Sure sounds like higher education to me.)

    After earning his law degree, he went to work as a senior prosecutor in Middlesex County, MA. He served in that capacity for 6 years, during which time he successfully prosecuted organized crime figures, worked for victim’s rights, and founded rape-counseling programs.

    Kerry was elected Lieutenant Governor of MA in 1972, and served in that capacity for two years before winning election to the Senate, where he’s been since then. Your characterization of Kerry’s Senate voting record as the “most liberal” is a favorite Team Bush talking point, but in fact it only refers to a ranking produced by one magazine for one year (2003) — a year in which Kerry was campaigning for president and frequently missed Senate votes as a result, with the odd rules of the magazine’s ranking system counting those missed votes as part of his “liberal” score. Note that the same magazine’s lifetime rankings — which would seem to be a lot more relevant to your Kerry “resume” — show Kerry as being considerably less liberal — in fact, to the right of the Democratic average.

    Let’s see. Oh, yes: Heinz. Snopes writes the following:


    Teresa Heinz Kerry does not “own the Heinz Corporation” — she has no involvement whatsoever with the management or operations of the H.J. Heinz Company, nor does she own anything close to a controlling interest of the company’s stock. According to Heinz itself, the Heinz family trust which Mrs. Kerry inherited sold most of its shares of Heinz stock back in 1995 and currently holds less than a 4% interest in the company.

    [done quoting]

    I could go on, but what’s the point? For anyone who bothers to fact-check your statements, it’s obvious that you’re an anti-Kerry tool willing to basically make shit up in order to smear him.

    And you’re a teacher? Ouch.

  263. TeacherVet Says:

    Ah, great response. Are you trying to say that Truth and Facts matter when making charges? I was quite well aware of those flaws when I received the silly e-mail but, by the standards being used in this campaign, I thought the rhetoric was more important than facts.

    I am aware that he ran for Congress in 1972 but pulled out of the race when the polls told him that his pro-communist actions in 1971 were not favorable to the voters, making it necessary to disavow those actions in future campaigns.

    By his own words, he did visit with leaders of the communist government in Paris while still in the Reserves, in violation of statutes prohibiting any consort with the enemy. Did he lie? Certainly he lied about the use of Agent Orange as a contributing factor in the mortality rate, and he lied about minorities comprising the greatest percentage of our casualties in Vietnam.

    Your charts? The ones that are most prominent compare the number of casualties during the months in which we had primarily only advisors in Vietnam with the months in which we launched a major offensive in Iraq. Deceptive? I realize that you acknowledged such, but the chart itself is the deceptive eye-catcher.

    Yes, Kerry received a Silver Star for leaving his vessel and his men in a vulnerable position, against regulations, and killing an injured enemy combattant, also in violation of the UCMJ.

    Lt. (jg) Kerry was in the Naval Reserves, on active duty. He does not like to acknowledge that he was a member of the Reserves because it does not serve his agenda, trying to convince us that the Reserves were used by many to avoid service in Vietnam. If he had signed a Standard Form 180 to release all of his military records, including the report that labeled him as a loose cannon who required constant supervision, we could make a valid judgment of his service.

    I expect to hear rebuttal using the talking points about Bush’s records, so let me save you the time and effort. There are probably no more records. When a member is released from the military, military records are generally purged of all non-official, non-essential papers and documents. These are given to the service member to dispose of them as they see fit. In the 60s and 70s, the National Guard was a very lax organization. I never knew of, or heard of, any regular military personnel who resented those who served in the Guard. Also, it was typical back then to assume that any application for a deviation to regular assignment could be considered approved unless directed otherwise. In other words, a person could put in for release of reporting to duty and assume that it was approved unless specifically disapproved. Attendance was very spotty in many locations, and it was not uncommon for Guardsmen to just go home until they heard from their command. It is very easy to look back, judge and measure duty them with the standards of today. It was an entirely different military and a different America, and I still have not heard anything out of the ordinary about Bush’s service that was not commonplace at the time.

    Kerry is pardoned for not fulfilling his responsibilities as a congressman because he was busy campaigning, while Bush is criticized for taking excessive working vacations?

    Consider the following synopsis of Kerry’s campaign. He pays his income taxes at a 12% rate; he is arguably the richest member of Congress; His net worth is probably over 5 billion; “vote for me – I understand the peasants better.” Surely his followers must cringe when they see him pandering for votes with his hunting expeditions and his talk about God. Integrity?

    I do respect your use of some logical reasoning in making your arguments. It is more mature and respectable than simple-minded ridicule of facial features and speech patterns.

  264. Bushinenergizer Says:

    I agree with John Callander…he makes more sense of everything…I am looking at the same research on the Internet and CNN News, NBC News, ABC News, Fox News, Newspapers-Washington Post, New York Times, People…Times Magazine– talking about Kerry’s record, and it concides the same factual basis. I am looking at the same record as John Callander. I do believe when someone does full research.

    TeacherVet, where do you base your information on? which record do you go on the rhetroic but rather the facts? All you have to do is type “Agent Orange” on the Internet Search Engine, there are full information on everything on it…it is very interesting read…What is your obession about Agent Orange? When I was a Kid, I heard that Agent Orange had killed People over in China, that is what I have heard anyways and everybody knows it. It is no secret really.

  265. Ponyboy Says:


    Newsflash buddy, nobody gives a shit about anyone’s Vietnam era service anymore.

    Get over it.

    Here you have the most important election in history and you’re sitting here talking about things that may or may not have happend 30 years ago. You cannot run on Bush’s record because it is a failure, both at home and abroad.

    America needs change to be safer at home and more respested in the world. Someone who looks after our bottom line, not Halliburton’s and their other rich friends.

    It is very concerning to know that you are a teacher with these kind of extreme political views. One can only hope that your students don’t respect you and don’t listen to your bs.

  266. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Ponyboy: I agree with you. Like My grandmother always would say “Don’t dwell on the Past, my sweetie…What is done is done and you cannot undo the past, but my sweetie, you can do something about the Present and let Tomorrow take care of it self.” Wise Woman I would have to say…I don’t understand why Bush would bring up the Past, he kept on saying Kerry did 20 years of this and that…it happened a long time ago!! We cannot dwell on the Past anymore, but this is important indeed today and into the Future that we can do something about…change for the better or worse! It is up to everybody!! I would vote for better and change things for the better future! Ditto! Almost 10 days….and counting….We shall see on this day that Bush is out of the Oval Office for good! (Bush, no cheating this time around!–UN Nations are watching you, Bush and the World too).

  267. TeacherVet Says:

    If Kerry’s past is of no importance, then the four-day Democratic National Convention was a complete waste of time. His past shaped his character today, and that surely makes it more significant than the immature ridicule of Bush’s ears and facial expressions.

    I watched and listened as George Bush endured six months of base-less attacks before he issued his first rebuttal; Ted Kennedy’s ridiculous charge about a plan formulated in Texas, Howard Dean accusing him of lies, Al Gore screaming incoherently, George Soros and the many millions of bucks spent on 527s, and too many more to list right now.

    Based on the Democratic Party definition of a Lie, every one of my students has lied repeatedly on exams for the last 30 years. Our troops failed to discover the location of WMDs in Iraq, but just about every country in the world and most Congressmen on both sides of the aisle agreed that they existed. The intelligence was wrong, or the WMDs were moved to a neighboring country, so Bush lied? No dictionary defines a LIE as being WRONG.

    The party obviously uses the term very loosely because President Clinton (only when faced with DNA evidence on Monica’s dress) was forced to admit he had lied under oath. Perjury was the only basis of his impeachment, not his sexual involvement with a young lady. Democrats are desperate for an opportunity to use the “liar” term on a Republican president, but it is incorrect. When the term was first used by a couple of hateful idiots, Kerry refused to use it. After Goebel’s theory had run its fateful course, he began using the term freely.

    It was a very effective tool in developing a spirit of hatred toward the current administration. Congratulations, Mr. Kerry; America is divided, possibly beyond repair, so you may have a chance of reaching your personal goal. If elected, you say you will pull all of us back together again; surely the poor idiots who have been insulted repeatedly will forget the attacks that have been perpetrated. Good luck!

    I find it strange that anyone would find my support of a sitting president (in a time of war) to be an extreme political view. I suppose you might think it more appropriate if I taught my students to hate the Commander-in-Chief, ridicule him, call him a liar, etc. Sorry to disappoint, but my classes are always the first ones filled at registration. Perhaps Kerry needs to come into the building to exercise his only leadership quality; divisiveness.

  268. johnny Says:

    hey teachervet, have you always been an a&&hole or have you worked at it your whole life?

  269. TeacherVet Says:

    Apparently I am learning something from Kerry supporters.

  270. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Teacher Vet:

    So are you saying you would vote for Bush because you feel sorry for him? And do you force the Students to vote for Bush (for example, teaching and brainwashing them into voting for Bush).

    There is a difference between Clinton and Bush:

    Clinton told the World the truth after the admission.

    Bush refused to tell the truth after the fact.

    That is the difference. Bush in his 2nd Debate, would not state 3 mistakes he made in his four years in Office. We are not making fun of Bush, Bush had made a fool of himself, ALL by himself.

    Stupid quote from Bush: “For Invading in Iraq, he wants no Casualities.” — no Casualities??? in War? Impossible. In order to declare a War in any where in the World, there has to be a Casualty. People died, did you know 50 Iraqi Soldiers are masscared today? 22 People died in Car Bombs…200 People dead per week in Iraq. Keep on counting…we just may beat 58,000 American Soldiers dead in Vietnam. I guess it is just numbers to you, but it means a Life to me.

  271. TeacherVet Says:

    Come on, get real. No, I won’t vote for Bush because I feel sorry for him. He made a tough, necessary decision to send our troops into Iraq, even though the decision was unpopular. In other words, he knew the personal stakes in terms of his own political future, but felt that our future was more important than his own; he did not reference the polls to make the difficult decision.

    No, I cannot be compared to the vast majority of university professors who brainwash their students into liberalism and a pacifist mindset during this era of worldwide terror attacks. My students have posted numerous signs/banners on walls throughout the school (invoking participation in our mock election this coming Friday), with an equal number of supporting posters for both of the major party candidates.

    Please inform me of 3 mistakes that John Kerry has admitted to at any point during the campaign.

    The “no casualties in Iraq” statement was a misquote. Both sides have been guilty of taking statements (and even partial statements) out of context. This is a prime example.

    Yes, we may match the 58,000 American soldiers dead… but, at the current rate, it may take about 200 years.

    I have said for months that Kerry’s best hopes for attaining his personal lifetime goal are 1)large numbers of dead bodies and 2)a high rate of unemployment. If Kerry is lucky, perhaps they will find a way to blow up one of the hotels housing our troops; that would give him cause to celebrate on Nov. 3rd. Judging by his history, I have no doubt that he is pulling for the terrorists for the next few days.

    You still insist that the words “lie” and “mistake” have the same meaning? Please look up the definitions. If they are synonymous, it follows that the list of liars is almost endless; Bush, Clinton, Kerry, the French, the Germans, the Russians, the British, and everyone else who spoke out prior to the war all looked at the same intelligence and concluded that Saddam had WMD… so everyone lied! Sorry; all of them were surely right at the time we chose to attack Iraq, and apparently all were wrong the day after the fall of Baghdad… but it cannot be interpreted as a “lie” under any circumstances. Desperation.

    On June 6, 1996, I called the police because someone was trying to gain entry into my home by breaking out a window. Following the police investigation and subsequent report, using your definition, I and the investigating officers could all have been charged with filing a false report (lying) because the intruder was gone by the time they arrived. That would have been equally ridiculous. Not a great analogy, and certainly it is microcosmic in comparison, but it still makes the same point.

  272. Ponyboy Says:


    You’re not just supporting any sitting president – you’re supporting the worst, most corrupt, idiotic, decietful sitting president in history (history will prove this). I mean honestly, how can you follow a man that can barley speak proper english? Who did (does?)cocaine?

    So when he and Dickhead Cheney keep telling the American people that saddam and al-qaeda were liked to 9/11 they aren’t lying? You’re lying about them not lying.

    I am afraid we may have lost TeacherVet to the dark side of the force. His mind is way too brainwashed for him to realize what is happening.

  273. TeacherVet Says:

    You guys are just too good at hate-filled, vitriolic speech, and such hatred always blinds one’s ability to see reality. Surely the immature name-calling has garnered all the votes it possibly can by now, and even Kerry has exhibited the maturity to realize that at this point in the campaign such childish behavior turns off voters. You display immaturity, then spew forth an out-dated Michael Moore charge…wow, what a strong argument.

  274. Ponyboy Says:

    Childish? Immature? Isn’t it childish and immature to wear a little purple band-aid on your face to mock someone’s war wounds? As a verteran I thought you might think so.

    And I also love how conservatives try to dismiss Michael Moore and his film. His documentary won the top award at the highly respected Cannes Film Festival, it’s Bush and Company on the tapes, real soldiers from the battlefield, real images from Iraq. I mean what exactly are you disputing about this film? By the way if you think that you can dispute anything from this film, may I remind you that Moore will pay anyone who can prove his facts wrong. So far, no takers. Just like the reward offered to anyone who can remember serving with Bush in AL in the national guard in the 70s, since you like to bring up the past, TeacherVet.

  275. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Teacher Vet:

    “Sure it will take the number to 58,000 Deaths…at the rate of 200 years…”

    You must be joking!!! The War is faster, quicker, with easy bombs, easy machinery, easy rifles and bullets…one Soldier can be shot in a wink of an eye…Today it is 1,200 Soldiers dead within one year…but that does not include the numbers with Afghanistan…and the World…just remember the number beats your assumption with 37,000 to 60,000 Iraqi People dead within one year!!!! Due to the orders of Bombs, Guns, Car Bombers, etc…etc…Now you tell me how the Hell the 380 TONS of Explosives went missing in Iraq? That will escalate the numbers down to another year!! NOT 200 years!!! If you would think you can discard the numbers of Iraqi People Deaths, you are COLD hearted!!

    As for the Mistakes and the Lies, I did not say they are the same…it is different. A Mistake is when you are a fool for making stupid decisions such as smoking Pot in College…A Lie is intentional harm being said to hurt other People and even himself. Bush simply has to state 3 mistakes in his four years of Administration and he COULD not name one…it is not the Lies he made in his time, but Mistakes…that is the Difference. Such as doing his Cocaine during College Years…that is a Mistake. Lying would be telling People that Iraq is never Better!!

    380 TONS of Explosive missing in Iraq, that is Scary! Why did the American Soldiers and Iraqi Officals DID NOT guard these premises??? It is as much their Fault for not guarding and securing these areas…and if it BLOWS UP in their Face, it is as much their Fault! These will be probably used for January Elections in Iraq. Their Security in Iraq Sucks! And Iraqi People are being trained for becoming Guardsmen? All of them were shot while going Home! They just graudated from Boot Camp! The Insurgents and Terrorists KNEW what they are doing…its an inside job…Sure Bush would not mind if an Insurgent will become an Iraqi Police…or Soldier to shoot their own People!!! How is that for Screening? It is Poor!! How is Bush handling this matter? “Oh Iraq is never better and its getting Better every day, trust me.” ;)

  276. TeacherVet Says:

    Yes, wearing the purple band-aids was at the convention was childish, immature and stupid. It also lasted only 4 days, and was confined to the convention floor.

    Almost every premise used by Michael Moore has been thoroughly debunked by many sources, but done were in pursuit of any kind of financial rewards. His “documentary” is a work of fiction, and his words are meaningless. His offers are farcical.

    Bush may not have even shown up in Alabama, but who cares. He applied for release of reporting for duty to work with a political campaign, just as Kerry appropriately applied for release for the same reason. Sorry for the redundancy, but I will repeat verbatum from an earlier post:

    …it was typical back then to assume that any application for a deviation to regular assignment could be considered approved unless directed otherwise. In other words, a person could put in for release of reporting for duty and assume that it was approved unless specifically disapproved. Attendance was very spotty in many locations, and it was not uncommon for Guardsmen to just go home until they heard from their command. It is very easy to look back, judge and measure duty then with the standards of today. It was an entirely different military and a different America, and I still have not heard anything out of the ordinary about Bush’s service that was not commonplace at the time.

  277. TeacherVet Says:

    Bush…zer, tonight a Kerry spokesman said the 380 tons of explosives “were a weapon of mass destruction.” That amount of explosives is almost a drop in the bucket when compared to the massive amount of such explosives that we have already discovered and destroyed, so Kerry’s camp is now admitting that Saddam had WMD. How strange (and convenient) that this “news flash” appears only days before the election, since the alleged cache has been missing since the day of Saddam’s capture.

    By the way, it has been shown that the aforementioned, alleged cache was not even at the specified location when the 101st Airborne (supposedly) failed to guard them. The charge of failing to guard the cache is almost surely false, anyway, since our troops have a clear and visible record of destroying them in all other instances.

    Again, thanks to the Kerry campaign for publicly acknowledging the existence of WMDs.

  278. Ponyboy Says:

    TeahcerVet there you go again.


    The fact that they’re only now finding out that these weapons are missing only underlines the manner in which this war has been executed. From the very begining of this fiasco – the intelligence, defying the will of the world, troop levels, ally building, the war plan, abu graib, securing weapons…. it just goes on and on. And thats just Iraq! T

    ell me TeacherVet, if Bush was in charge of one of your company’s, would you extend his contract, based on his performance thus far? You probably would, and of course, just like every business Bush has ran, he would run that sucker right into the ground just like he is doing with our childrens future.

    How can you say that Moore’s film has been proven wrong?! For crying out loud, THAT IS PAPA BUSH SHAKING THE HANDS OF THE TALIBAN ON THE TAPE. THAT IS BUSH JUNIOR WELCOMING THE TALIBAN TO TEXAS AS GOVERNOR. It’s hard to say that this stufff isn’t true when you can see it with your own two eyes. Do yourself a favor, go watch it, then we’ll talk.

    BTW – I am an independant voter and decided to endorse Kerry because of his solid performance at the debates and on the trail. He proved to be a more honest, positive, calm, sincere, itelligent man who is offering new hope for the people, and the troops. Thats what educated voters do. They don’t simply vote for someone because they support their party, they vote for the best person for the job.

    Go watch that movie TeachVet, then we can have an informed debate about it.


  279. Ponyboy Says:

    Quote From TeacherVet:

    “By the way, it has been shown that the aforementioned, alleged cache was not even at the specified location when the 101st Airborne (supposedly) failed to guard them. The charge of failing to guard the cache is almost surely false, anyway, since our troops have a clear and visible record of destroying them in all other instances”

    Statement from Pentagon

    At the Pentagon, an official who monitors developments in Iraq said U.S.-led coalition troops had searched Al Qaqaa in the immediate aftermath of the March 2003 invasion and confirmed that the explosives were intact. Thereafter the site was not secured by U.S. forces, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

    Please TeacherVet, stop all the lies. You’re only making yourself look ridiculous.


  280. Leberwurst Says:

    Quote from TeacherVet: “He (Bush) made a tough, necessary decision to send our troops into Iraq, even though the decision was unpopular.”

    Necessary decision?? Why? For what reasons? I’d like to hear your answer on this one. You’re right about the decision being unpopular.
    Why do you think half the world was against America going into Iraq and demonstrated against this happening?? Because the facts weren’t there to justify such action.

    I have read all of the postings on this site, TeacherVet is filled with (and blinded by) hatred (ever thought about councelling?), Bushinenergizer is filled with love and feelings for his fellow citizens, and Ponyboy seems to be alright too. Makes very interesting reading!!!

    Fingers crossed from your German supporter! We are waiting for Bush to get KICKED OUT!!!! Someone said that there will be parties all over the world – true, true! We’ll be opening more than a Weissbier when it happens :-)

  281. Bushinenergizer Says:


    You are again dreaming up the pipes. Just remember these Explosives “happened to be under Bush Watch”. Not Kerry’s. It is Bush Administration and the Military’s responsiblity to secure the “site”–their very own words. I have heard the Pentagon’s comments, saying that when they were busy going after AlQadaa (whatever) then when they came back to the “site”, the Explosives were gone. What does that mean? does that mean no body is at the post? Just remember my dear, that the NO-Gun Policy is enacted in Iraq, and there is no fighting back, right? They did this ON PURPOSE—Why? Because the very fact that the fightings will eventually stop, then what? NO more Wars…but then Bush thought…oh my Campagin Topic is “War on Terrorism”–I need to keep the War going…and all of a sudden, these Explosives went missing? Bush wants the War keep on going…because otherwise if it stopped (The War), then his Campaign Topic is meaningless, then he needs to go on something, but he is not really good on all the Programs….He is only good on WARS, and that is all Bush ever good at. Kerry bahsed Bush for having no responsiblity in securing the “site”, but rather releasing it on “purpose”, just to keep the War going…then Bush has a Election to win. ;)

    If that was the case and it is true, then Bush is a very very sick person, releasing Explosives to the Insurgents and Terrorists to use to BLOW us all up!!! Just today, Iraq Insurgents “threatens” to cause War because of the Fallujah bombs…they are very angry, more than ever!! You better watch out, there will be Blood shed in all around the World, more than you will ever see in History! When the Insurgents “threatens” something…it always “true” in every case and it will happen!!!

    Is that concidence for the Explosives to be gone? After one year of search and destroy, why didn’t they destroy this one? Oh by the way, we were fighting the Al Qadaa then came back to the supposed “site” and it was gone… THE IMPORTANT MILITARY RULE IS TO POST TWO GUARDS AT THE EXPLOSIVES SITE AT ANY TIME…THERE WAS NONE. nO GUARDS? mmmm their intention is questionable…maybe in having Bush’s War keep on going? YOU tell me.

    Yes, I do care for the People in the World…dying is not the answer. Peace is.

    Peace and Out!!!

  282. TeacherVet Says:

    Today I personally interviewed a U.S. Army Colonel who was with the 101st Airborne, as well as several of the GIs who were present and involved when the storage facility was secured, and they ALL verify what I had suspected; the 380 tons of explosive materials were not at that weapons storage facility when they secured the site. The conclusion is that the stuff had already been moved to another site sometime prior to their arrival. They surmised several places it could have been transferred to, including Syria, or a company from one of the so-called allied countries whose support had been bought out by the Oil For Food program.

    I know – Annon has said the Oil For Food scandal is untrue; but his word is not credible since members of his family have been implicated in the scandal. Has anyone noticed that investigation into the scandal is being delayed until after our election is over?

    I believe the people who were there, and those people had nothing to gain by lying to me. You will surely choose to believe those who were not there, but who can use the well-timed story politically.

    The missing “stuff” has been described as WMD by Kerry’s people, so yes, it was necessary to overthrow Saddam and his government; they were in possession of the WMD, he was playing host to several known terrorists, and he was providing financial rewards to families of terrorist suicide bombers.

    On CNN’s “Crossfire” in 1997, Kerry stated, “We know we can’t count on the French. We know we can’t count on the Russians. We know that Iraq is a danger to the United States, and we reserve the right to take pre-emptive action whenever we feel it’s in our national interest.” Does he still stand by any portion of that statement?

    Consider the following chronological list of statements:

    1/13/2002: Sen. John Edwards said, “I actually believe that as long as we have somebody this hostile to the United States in Saddam Hussein, who is in fact developing weapons of mass destruction – we know he’ll use them; he’s violated the cease-fire agreement – the reality is that we can’t allow him to continue on the track he is. And I also believe that we can’t be secure and the region can’t be secure as long as he’s still in power.” (CNN’s “Late Edition”)

    2/24/2002: John Edwards called Iraq the “most serious and imminent threat to our country.” (CNN’s “Late Edition”)

    9/15/02: Kerry said, “Those are the things that-that I think present the greatest danger. He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat.” (CBS’ “Face The Nation”) – 6 months into the war.

    10/9/2002: Kerry called those who would leave Saddam alone “naive to the point of grave danger.” (Congressional Record)

    10/10/2002: Sen. Hillary Clinton said, “It’s undisputed that Saddam has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al-Qaida members.” (Congressional Record, p. S10288) – 9 months into the war.

    12/15/2003: Sen, Evan Bayh (D-IN) acknowledged the Iraq-al Qaida relationship, saying, “The relationship seemed to have it roots in mutual exploitation. Saddam Hussein used terrorism for his own ends, and Osama bin Laden used a nation-state for the things that only a nation-state can provide.” (Stephen F. Hayes, “An Intelligent Democrat…,” The Weekly Standard)

    12/15/2003: Kerry said, “It (Iraq) is critical to the outcome of the war on terror. And therefore any advance in Iraq is an advance forward in that.” (Fox News’ “Special Report”)

    6/20/2004: Vice-Chair of the 9/11 Commission Lee Hamilton (D-IN) said, “There were contacts between al-Qaida and Iraq going back clear to the early 1990s when Osama bin Laden was in Sudan, then when he was in Afghanistan. I don’t think there’s any dispute about that.” (ABC’s “This Week)

    9/7/2004: Kerry said, “Today marks a tragic milestone in the war in Iraq. More than 1,000 of America’s sons and daughters have now given their lives on behalf of their country, on behalf of freedom IN THE WAR ON TERROR. I thank that the first thing that every American wants to way today is how deeply we each fell the loss.” (CNN’s “Wolf Blitzer Reports”)


    The war was UNNECESSARY, and we should have waited for another refusal to comply with U.N. mandates? Please note that NONE of the documented quotations comes from those “hate-filled, war-mongering Republicans.” Also, please note the dates. If anyone can deny that leading Democrats have consistently acknowledged the necessity of removing Saddam Hussein, and have acknowledged that every justification for that action (WMD, harboring and aiding terrorism) was appropriate – even very recently – please explain.

    Bush…zer, surely you’re kidding! or mistaken! Did Kerry actually accuse Bush of allowing the stuff to be somehow taken so the war would be prolonged? Surely he is more aware of the circumstances surrounding the War on Terror than that. If he doesn’t realize that the War on Terror will last for many years, then you’ve REALLY got me scared if he becomes Commander-in-Chief. Surely he has not forgotten that WAR WAS DECLARED ON US, and …… wow… I can’t find the words to describe what an inept leader he would be if he really said and believed such a thing.

  283. TeacherVet Says:

    It takes a lot to really amaze me, but this does it! Who at the Pentagon stated that we left the site in Iraq to go after Al Qaida in another country, then returned, having left no one to guard the storage site? Surely that was a misinterpretation. If such a report was actually broadcast, it must have been on CNN or CBS. We monitor only MSNBC and Fox News, and they would surely have covered the story if Kerry actually made such a ridiculous charge.

    Does ANYONE really think that we will be safe and secure if we simply pull out and stop defending ourselves? War was declared on everyone in this country; we suffered a deadly attack, and the ostrich defense would be a fatal mistake. I hate war, and Peace and Love are the goal of everyone, but peaceful loving is impossible if we are under attack or dead.

  284. John Callender Says:

    Today I personally interviewed a U.S. Army Colonel who was with the 101st Airborne, as well as several of the GIs who were present and involved when the storage facility was secured, and they ALL verify what I had suspected; the 380 tons of explosive materials were not at that weapons storage facility when they secured the site.

    Ah. And we have your word on this — the word of someone who displays no scruples about posting things that turn out to be thoroughly untrue, and then laughing it off as all a big joke.

    You so funny! HA HA HA!

    Ahem. Whatever.

  285. Leberwurst Says:

    Quote TeacherVet: If anyone can deny that leading Democrats have consistently acknowledged the necessity of removing Saddam Hussein, and have acknowledged that every justification for that action (WMD, harboring and aiding terrorism) was appropriate – even very recently -please explain.

    Justification, appropriate(harboring and aiding terrorism)????: more important would be the use of policies that place emphasis on deescalation and conflict management than “control”. The policies that were pursued since September 11, especially by America, but also those of some European states, are aiming at the “symptom” and not the CAUSES of terrorism. It is not bomb the bad guys = problem solved. This only makes matters worse, and they (the bad guys of the world) won’t stop. They’ll continue on and on and on and on!
    Your government is making matters a lot worse with their arrogant stance. It pisses me off that Mr Bush pulled out of the Kyoto agreement (America being the world’s largest emitter of carbon dioxide!!), but that doesn’t mean I’m going to become a terrorist and do any harm to a single American citizen. However, as long as the American leaders keep handling against “terrorists” the way they do – things are not going to change! They are not dealing with the root of the problem! Mr Bush is not going to win the “war against terrorism”, he’s only pouring oil into the fire. AND, he’s stealing money out of your pockets to finance it. Obviously it is not going to worry the upper class of your country, they’ll still be earning the dollars and living like kings. Unfortunately it is only going to affect the middle class (soon to be lower class) and the lower class (soon to be what???). That is why I stand behind Bushinenergizer and his views on the situation in general. He is not only concerned about his fellow Americans, but also about other human beings in this world. Good on you Bushinenergizer, I wish there were more people like you in the world – or in your government :-)). Unlike TeacherVet who seems to have a private grudge again Kerry and is only interested in receiving personal satisfaction, should Kerry lose the election. It’s not just about you TeacherVet and your being “offended” – get a grip and go to your room – you’re grounded!. It is about the wellbeing of people in your country, and the rest of the world. Don’t you see how everything is entwined, and how if this idiot Bush stays in power everything will only get WORSE!!!!
    At the end of the day it is impossible to say beforehand if Kerry will be exactly the president needed. But he certainly can’t be worse than Bush (no one could be), so let him give his best. Just look at what Bush has done in four years, imagine what could happen if he stays in office for another four. This shouldn’t be allowed to happen.

    Fingers crossed, counting the days!!!!!! The Weissbier is in the fridge waiting…..

  286. Ponyboy Says:

    LOL John!

    TeacherVet I think you are some crazy psyshco and I now I see why you support Bush.

    Actually the report about the weapons cache was filed by MSNBC.

    You have been doing nothing but lying on this site since day one, making things up, refuting things that you don’t even know about. Your Presidents days are numbered, TeacherVet. We can see the desperation in his eyes and we can read it in your text.

    I’m glad you follow FOX news, the have a solid reputation for unbiased reporting. LOL – that’s probably why you are so corrupted and have know idea what the facts are.

    Don’t you find it extremely ironic that you are trying to defend your president on a website called LIES.COM?

    What I found even more ironic is that you are trying to defend him by using lies!

    Can’t you see that all the other Bush lovers have backed away from this argument on this site. They know it is a lost cause. Can over it. Bye bye Bush!!

    And yes I love peace and wish tyhe world could live as one. But with cowboys like Bush in charge that will never happen. And again, you are trying to tie the war in iraq to terrorism.

    For the last time TeacherVet, it has been proven by the non-partisan 9/11 Commission that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 and no ties to Al QeadaCan you get that in your brainwashed head? It’s very sad, Bush and Cheney have you and many others so scared that you will let them do and say anything. How blind are you? Open your eyes and see the light.

    Live on hope, not fear. Be resolute, not arrogant. Be strong, not divisive.

    Less than a week before that retard is out. Yeeeeeeeehawwwwwww!!


  287. Leberwurst Says:

    yeeeeaaaah Ponyboy!!!!

    “it has been proven by the non-partisan 9/11 Commission that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 and no ties to Al Qaida” – EXACTLY!!! I can’t understand why so many people still believe that whopper! You’re right Ponyboy about the brainwashing and scared thing – it all has to do with applied psychcology – keep ’em scared, keep ’em under control. And as we can read (i.e TeacherVet)- it works!!

    I’m getting nervous now. Not long to go until E-Day! It might interest you to know that Bush is not very favored in Germany. I do not know a single person that is in favor of his politics and actions. Wonder why?? Might have something to do with the fact that the media in Europe is more critical (sure, there’s always a few that drop out of line) and that we aren’t having the psychology applied!! We have our eyes open (as far as possible).

    GOOD LUCK!!!!! PEACE!!!!!

  288. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Teacher Vet: You gotta be joking when you interviewed a Corporal…this Corporal is not supposed to tell People Top Secret Contents…that would be classified as a Traitor. All Military Personnels and Army Officials are not allowed to disclose information regarding these things. That is why only Pentagon gave out its actual Statment saying that the Explosives went missing when they were gone to fight the Al Qadda then came back to the “site” and it had disappeared. They also acknowledged that the “site” was not secured. These Informations were disclosed on CNN News.

    Interesting that you would take the word of a U.S. Corporal who was in USA, not being in Iraq physically at the “site” over the Pentagon Statments. So you don’t believe anything the Pentagon tells you?

    You are living in an imaginary place, sounds like Bush would be at right now. LOL

  289. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Interesting to point out the importance of the dates…the Pentagon said that the “Site” was secured last year of May 2003 and they had locked it and left the “site” unsecured after that making it less priority, and went somewhere else more top Priority. They even acknowledged that they did not think the Insurgents or Terrorists would cut the Locks and get these Explosives…What a Laugh! they not sure? Can we trust these Military Operative especially when they are “not sure”? How can we trust Bush when he would say “not sure”? We don’t want “not sure” statement, we want 100% LIABILITY!!!! 100%, NO “NOT SURE” OR iF “NOT SURE”>…..AT ALL!!!

    Bush not sure if he wants Causuality in Iraq, then he had to ask the Pentagon, “Are you sure”? That there will be no Causality? There you go again, Bush said “Not sure”. Then he said Iraq is never better! What a Laugh! I don’t want to vote for Bush who thinks “not sure” of anything…I want a sure thing…100% Liability, 100% Sure…with strong impact and that is Kerry. He will make SURE things are accomplished and finish the mission and come back home, with a back up of Peace Solutions.

    Have you ever, ever, ever wondered why Bush never seeked Peace Solutions? He never mentioned “Peace” in his Speeches or Debates AT ALL!! Kerry had said it few times- the word “Peace”. You want Peace? Kerry is the one will ensure Peace in the World. Bush will not ensure Peace, but yes you said it, Prolonging War time. And that is the fact. You cannot deny it. Bush even said it himself. I want War on Terrorism and would do it again. (his own words). That is when he landed his plane on the Ship and put up a banner “Mission Accomplished”…that the War in Iraq is over then he said he would do it again! He got his wish…the Explosives went missing in Iraq! There shall be more War to come in 4 more years…War, war, War, war….it will be all you will ever think about and dream about, without Peace and without end in sight. You got to be crazy for not thinking peace and loving all People in the World. Love Others like you would do yourself- One of the Golden Rule in the Bible! That is if you are a Christian! Bush is NOT loving others, he don’t even love himself either…full of crack/cocaine and drinking booze and perhaps dementia.

  290. Bushinenergizer Says:

    What? I heard that Bush approved more money of Billions of Dollars invested for Iraq and Afghanistan. Where would he get that kind of money? Billions of Dollars? We are going to be in a deeper hole of Deficit!! We will be declared the WORSE Decifit Holder in World History!!!

    Gee, I think Bin Laden got his Wish…He said in his Videotapes that he wants USA to be in a deeper hole of deficit and the Economy will right back into the Depression Era. We are getting close…We are broke now, then will be in a risk of crashing anytime soon. Gee Thanks!!! My Children and Grandchildren will pay for the money you caused for decades to come! Bush’s name will be off our Christmas List for sure. NO Gifts for Bush caues we are paying the Deficit, sorry we are broke, but heck Jesus will protect you Bushie…think you (Bush) will be blessed and protected for long? I think not. God and Jesus Christ does not like Wars and Killings…it is not up to them, it is up to Bush- the holier Man who knows everything…but “not sure” of anything.

  291. TeacherVet Says:

    Ponyboy: Which of the referenced, direct quotes from Democrat leaders were lies? All of them? The quote from Lee Hamilton, Vice-Chair of the 9/11 Commission, on June 20th of this year did not affirm his (and the Commission’s) belief of a strong tie between Saddam and al Qaida (“…I don’t think there’s any dispute about that”)? I only gave a partial list of quotes from Democrat leaders who stated their own beliefs of an association; hard to believe those people have not been censured/silenced by their party.

    Yes, MSNBC probably “broke the story” first, but who cares which of the media was first? It was reported prematurely, without checking the validity. Timely?

    Bush…zer: Please read the post again; I talked with a U.S. Army Colonel, not a Corporal. I also discussed the issue with some enlisted men, but all of them were above the rank of Corporal. My contact was provided by Col. George Barber (ret.), who served under Gen. Tommy Franks.

    Those guys arrived at the site 6 days after the 3rd Infantry, and they vow that the cache of explosives was not there. They are prepared to return to Iraq when called, and they still believe in the operation. Please check the definition of the word “traitor.” Even military personnel are somewhat protected by Amendments to the Constitution, although the upper echelon are not allowed to disclose Classified material. Eye-witness accounts that contradict false reports in the media do not constitute traitorous behavior.

    The 3rd Infantry, on April 4th, made a complete inventory of EVERYTHING in the site, including the smallest materials… and they somehow overlooked 377 tons of plastic explosives? The charge was made with absolutely NO evidence… just a politically-charged, well-timed accusation. Kerry is using it to political advantage, and has nothing but a hollow charge to back it up. Is there any depth to which the guy will not stoop?

    I did make a big mistake in my post, and yes, I’m big enough to acknowledge a mistake. Respectfully, I thought you were struggling with the spelling of al Qaida, when you had actually spelled al QaDaa correctly. I had not seen it in print at that point.

    It is an issue of timely, political use, and that’s all it is. Do you find it strange that the N.Y. Times ran the story front-page for two days, but when contrary evidence began to surface, they failed to even mention it today? Political expediency!

    Fox News? Every argument/criticism I have seen on this site, and other hate-sources, I have also heard argued on Fox News – but usually without the childish name-calling. I don’t subscribe to any newspapers, because all of them have stated endorsements, ensuring that they always slant their reports in one direction or the other. On Fox, I can become informed of both sides of every issue. I choose to become aware of all the arguments; I have read every book available on both sides, and have reached the following conclusion: Right-wing authors are very critical of Democrat policies, almost always based on referenced history, and Left-wing authors are simply filled with hatred and vindictiveness, with arguments based on rumors and falsehoods.

    Strangely, I’m sure, I have voted for both Democrats and Republicans, and have ardently supported the efforts of every Commander-in-Chief since 1960. Yes, I have deep personal feelings against the man who falsely called me a baby-killer and led the movement to divide my country for personal gain, but, if he is elected, I will (at least) not be involved in any hateful attempts to sabotage his efforts – he will, after all, be my president, and subversive efforts would be counter-productive for the best interests of me and of my family. I will surely argue policies, but I will never contribute to civil unrest – period!

    The juvenile name-calling (liar, psycho, etc.) does not bother me, since it comes from those who lack legitimate, non-speculative arguments. I deal with the same “reasoning” daily in my job. When two juveniles have a disagreement, the individual who advances his argument with bullying, excessive volume and name-calling is wrong almost 100% of the time.

  292. TeacherVet Says:

    John, I don’t remember laughing. I do remember illustrating that accusations without foundation (latest one, the missing explosives) are so common that apparently truth does not matter, but I certainly do not find it funny. I even acknowledged that I was aware of the false statements, admittedly posted to invoke the predictable response (sorry for being manipulative) – how many such acknowledgements can you find on this thread by Bush-bashers?

  293. Ponyboy Says:

    Ya, ALMOST.

    Did you watch that movie yet? After you see it you will see first hand this administration corruption and ignoance. I only get “childish” when I am passionate about something, especially when someone continues to lie in my face (you and Bush). However, this is nothing compared to what we’ve seen from the republican party.

    Kerry’s home state team The Red Sox swept St. Louis tonight, Kerry will sweep the nation next Tuesday.

    Do yourself a favor on Tuesday TeacherVet,


  294. Ponyboy Says:

    Another Priceless Quote from TeacherVet:

    “…truth does not matter”.

    Hmmm, that about sums up the last 4 years of your Presidents philosophy.

    And with the weapons cache incident, the point is that Bush and Co. invaded a country on the basis that they had weapons that could fall into the hands of terrorists. They new these weapons existed, they were under the scrutiny of the IAEA before the March invasion, Face it, this is just another “miscalculation” on part of this adminsitration that is putting the troops at even further risk and has made America less safe. But will Bush admit that? Hell no, apprently he can’t think of any mistakes he has made. You know something TeacherVet, it’s really hard to correct problems when you refuse to acknowledge they even exist.

    Learn from your mistakes. I learned that in grade 2, too bad Bush didn’t. Oh yeah, probably because Bush only has his grade 1 education, at least that’s what it sounds like when he speaks, err reads what his speech writers wrote for him.

    Just Want Peace.

  295. Ponyboy Says:

    Can’t Resist…

    Seymour Hersh’s biggest fear is that George W. Bush is going to win Tuesday’s U.S. presidential election.

    “This war’s out of control. It’s not winnable,” Hersh said in Toronto yesterday. “The jet fuel that runs the insurgency is us. As long as we’re there, nothing is going to happen.”

    In May, the celebrated investigative reporter was first to expose details of the torture at Iraq’s Abu Ghraib prison in a string of New Yorker stories, a feat that bookends a career that took off in 1969 when he exposed the story of American troops who massacred several hundred Vietnamese civilians at My Lai.

    For that, he won the Pulitzer Prize.

    Now I’m sure TeacherVet will have some sort excuse as to why Hersh’s stories aren’t true, even though they have proven to be and even though he is a Pulitzer Prize winner, for breaking a story that TeacherVet and SwiftBoat Vets try to bash Kerry for speaking up about upon return from Vietnam.

    Problem is TeacherVet you have lost all credibility as you have continued to lie and distort facts throughout this whole debate. Seems like everytime you say something, a report surfaces or I stumble upon REAL information that counters what you say.

  296. Bushinenergizer Says:

    I agree with you, PonyBoy…I heard Bush in his Campaign regarding these Explosives in Iraq and he goes “I don’t know…?” or “I don’t have any ideas?”…a President whose does not have a clue what is going on in Iraq, told us to go talk to the Pentagon for answers, but we already got the answers from Pentagon itself…they admitted that the ‘site’ was not secured, and arrived there, it was gone. They have no ideas where it went. But do admit that the site was secured last year of April-May 2003 and UN Nations acknowledged that, and everybody knew about the “site” but later left the site to go elsewhere and now it was gone. They said perhaps “looted” from the Insurgents, because they acknowledged in April 2003 they did not discard the Explosives because it was not classified as WMD’s, because the UN Inspectors had said it is not WMD’s, because they are specifically looking for Chemical and Biological Warfare, not a meanigless plastic explosives, but did not have any ideas that it would fall into the hands of the Insurgents. (OPPS!)

    Whatever….PonyBoy, I did not watch the movie, but I will surely will definetely, it does not take me long to know Bush is a Liar and I can see right through him, as I am an expert of Gestures (I know Sign Language) and this Man Bush tells me he is lying and goofing off, not taking things seriously. A Man friend of mine saw the movie and he said he was disgusted about Bush, because he saw Bush with a group of People behind him and then Bush turned to the People and told him “Some think you are elite, but you People are my Base.” Bush’s actual very own words said to the People…this Friend of mine was shocked to see that Bush would actually say those words…Bush does not care about the American People, but his own selfish reasons. I would not want to vote a Selfish President, what happens if there is a crisis, WHERE WOULD YOU THINK BUSH WOULD BE AT? UNDER HIS BUNKER BASEMENT OF THE WHITE HOUSE….HE WOULD NOT FACE TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND ADDRESS/CALM THE AMERICAN PEOPLE’S FEARS…BUT RATHER WANT TO FEED UPON MORE FEAR INTO THE PEOPLE IN VOTING FOR HIM IN ORDER TO WIN HIS OWN ELECTION BY USING WAR TACTICS IN IRAQ….would you want a President cowdering into the basement and not address to the American People in events of a Crisis? Kerry WOULD!!!

  297. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Teacher Vet: Why are you not watching the Movie? Are you afraid you will see what Bush truly is?….Even his own Second Cousins don’t like Bush for what he is…always a Rich Snob who gets away with it…his own Blood Relatives going against him? I guess His Cousins knows of Bush Family more than we ever do…Remember Neil Bush’s ex wife? Sharon Bush or something like that? She said that the Bush Family are horrible, that they have no emotions or feelings toward the People at all…just negative, cold feelings…

    Cold Hearted? I would not want that as a President…the Killings of people in Iraq does not mean anything to him, as long Bush had captured Saddam Hussien. I remember seeing Bush’s Mother on 20/20…boy was she ever Cold hearted…she said if someone hurts my Son’s feelings, I will make this known and I will take who ever up their arse…and I will mean it…She said she does not care if it was a Lady or a kid…She seems to look so Cold hearted…worse than the Queen her self in Britian. Way Worse. She would say “Ummph, who cares?” As long I get something here in return, that is all it matters, she would say. I want some one who really cares for the American People as a President, not some Cold Hearted person as a President, that is even worse! Rich People scoff off the poor People in need of money…telling them to “go away!” Bush said that also to the Poor Man who was in front of him about a year ago…told the Security Guard “Get him out of here! He is dirty!” Rich Snobs, even worse for our own good. Kerry is Rich yes, but he really cares about the Environment and the Poor, in fact he and his Wife gave away Millions of Dollars to Charity to the Dolphins and for the Children and for its Environment. That is somebody who really CARES for the American People…Think and choose/vote for someone who really CARES for YOU, not somebody that don’t give a shit about YOU>. ;)

  298. TeacherVet Says:

    Perhaps you are all right! We should ignore all evidence except the word of film makers who spew their unsubstantiated versions of events with vitriolic verbage. Of course George Bush is a consistent liar, regardless of volumes of substantiating supporting evidence, because Michael Moore and John Kerry have said so.

    All evidence points to transfer of the stuff at al QaQaa to another location before our troops arrived on the scene, but we should discount all evidence except the word of a “friendly” U.N. official and John Kerry.

    If the explosives at al QaQaa were shipped to another location, is it not possible (probable?) that other WMDs were likewise moved? Of course that is not possible, because John Kerry has said that the president failed to guard the facility.

    Surely you are right – we all need to mirror Michael Moore’s views of reality. If that is all you poor folks need in terms of documentation, I truly pity you. Follow your heroes, and best wishes to you all.

  299. John Callender Says:

    Well, except that reporters have interviewed people who looted the facility after the US troops first arrived, and we have video and still photos taken by the embedded TV news crew from Minneapolis on June 18 showing lots of explosives still there, and the Bush team’s explanation of al Qaqaa has changed three or four times already, just in the span of one week.

    TeacherVet, you should give it a rest. I don’t think you have any credibility left, and talking more won’t restore it.

  300. Ponyboy Says:

    Too True John,

    Hey TeacherVet – Did you see that video of the site that aired today? What do you think of that? Another one of your defences proven once again incorrect. And yes, I seen it on MSNBC.More lies everyday from Bush. Makes me sick.

  301. TeacherVet Says:

    Were the confessed thieves arrested after admitting the looting? Perhaps they should have been detained so we could locate the missing explosives, or were these “reliable confessors” only useful for their “contribution to the cause?” Kerry leaders have already said they did not know anything for certain – would you call them liars?

    Surely the Minneapolis station had no agenda (sarcasm), since they have not publicized their filming of all those WMDs in all the months since the war began. Or can they certify that their video and film is actually that of plastic explosives will nuclear triggering capabilities.

    Lie – You guys certainly enjoy slinging that word around, eh? Come on, let’s add a few constructive expletives.

  302. Ponyboy Says:

    Unlike your hero Bush, I see no reason to sugarcoat the word lie, by calling them, “miscalculations” or “misjudgements”. These activities demonstrate lies or incompetence, either way, he’s gotta go.

  303. Ponyboy Says:

    This makes me want to vomit. It also confrims what Bush’er has been claiming about deaths in Iraq.

    LONDON (Reuters) – Tens of thousands of Iraqis have been killed in violence since the U.S.-led invasion last year, American public health experts have calculated in a report that estimates there were 100,000 “excess deaths” in 18 months.

    The rise in the death rate was mainly due to violence and much of it was caused by U.S. air strikes on towns and cities.

    “Making conservative assumptions, we think that about 100,000 excess deaths, or more have happened since the 2003 invasion of Iraq,” said Les Roberts of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in a report published online by The Lancet medical journal.

    “The use of air power in areas with lots of civilians appears to be killing a lot of women and children,” Roberts told Reuters.


    *Note that “excess” is in addition to the assumed death rate according to war statistics.

  304. TeacherVet Says:

    Of course you are surely right – all miscalculations are always lies! I graded some exams last night, and almost all of my students lied via miscalculation in several instances.

    Let’s see; Kerry estimated in his testimony that possibly as many as 3,000 would have to be at least relocated if we pulled out of Vietnam, and I guess he was close – at least 1.2 million were massacred. Maybe that’s why he didn’t include that part of his past in the Boston Convention.

    Wow… you mean Reuters is spreading propaganda with their “estimations” 4 days before the elections here in the U.S. (sarcasm). Need I wonder whether Les Roberts, of whom I have no knowledge, has an agenda? Good timing!

  305. Bushinenergizer Says:

    TeacherVet: So is your Fox News (umph propganda as you call it). Reuters are the most News used around the World…even Bush used these news of Reuters. The Facts don’t lie…you mean that the air power over the Iraq did not happen? IT DID HAPPEN DURING SHOCK AND AWE, REMEMBER THAT? AND IRAQI FAMILIES HAD DIED DUE TO AIR POWER, THEY ARE DEFENCELESS WITH NO MEANS OF SELF DEFENSE. I am against Air Power, as most of the People on the ground do not have self defense machinery and guns to strike back, only the Insurgents. These numbers happened…and we cannot ignore the numbers of deaths…Bush never acknowledged the numbers of deaths in his Campaign Ads, only acknowledged 1,200 soldiers and he feels sorry for them…(yea right) what about these Iraqi Families?!!! How would Bush feel if the Air Power goes over the White House?! Imagine that fear…(oh please don’t hit my house).

    Never mind that, Bush is your hero. What ya think about the new Bin Laden Videotape? I am curious to your reaction.

  306. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Precisely!!! PonyBoy thank you for the exact word of Incomptence on the part of Bush Administration. Even Guilani blames the Military for its incomptence when it comes to missing Explosives. Looks rather divisive to me, doesn’t it?

  307. Ponyboy Says:

    TeacherVet – The differrence between your students getting exam questions wrong is that they did get those wrong on purpose.

    Also, comparing students wrong answers on an exam to that of catostrophic decisions made by the leader of the most powerful country in the world, well, it’s a little weak.

  308. BJ in AZ Says:

    It’s pretty comical watching BOTH candidates run all over the country and all over the TV as this grueling process comes to a close (hopefully by Wed.!). I shake my head at the money spent, when what would be REALLY helpful is MUCH more real, face-to-face debate on the specific issues. Take one issue per debate, like illegal immigration, social security, or health care, and REALLY pick it apart. Bush would never have allowed that. Puppets only have so many mantras or soundbites. Just like the “no child left behind” answer to every question in the third debate. He always crumbles when it comes down to using your brain. “Just don’t get a flu shot!”, as if we have a choice. He only cares about BEING THE PRESIDENT. The title. The power and grandness of all. I think the latest bill for the senior’s prescription card, all the seemingly recent “God” talk, maybe even the war, have been a “set up” for re-election.

  309. TeacherVet Says:

    Ponyboy, re-read the post. I never compared student mistakes on an exam with the president’s response to the terrorist attacks on 9/11. Rather, I was illustrating the ridiculous, erroneous use of the word “lie.” Every president in my lifetime has made mistakes, so I suppose every one of them lied. Monday morning quarterbacking is really quite easy, eh?

    One thing is quite certain; no one should be able to accuse Kerry of lying. He has been on both sides of every issue, and even he surely has no idea where he stands on anything. He probably has a plan to have a plan to figure out what plan he should have to pursue his plan to pull this country back together.

    Your first sentence makes no sense – I can’t figure out what you intended to say.

    Come on, BJ – do you really think there is only one candidate who cares only about BEING THE PRESIDENT? What does your last sentence mean? The senior’s prescription card has been long-clamored-for legislation, discussion on the war began long before any focus was placed on reelection, and the only “recent” “God” talk has been spouted by John Kerry. George Bush has been ridiculed Democrats for at least 4 years for his “God” talk.

    It is not surprising that, as always, the primary point made in my post has not been addressed by anyone. While we are bemoaning the unfortunate loss of civilian life in an urban war, realize that Kerry’s miscalculation cost well over a million lives. Afterwards, he tried to establish normal relations between the U.S. and Hanoi, sacrificing any MIA/POWs who HE ADMITTED could still have been alive. I would vote for John Kerry – if it was a vote to excommunicate him to Hanoi to spend the rest of his days with his “well-intentioned” communist allies.

  310. Bushinenergizer Says:

    2 more days until Election Day!! I cannot wait till its over…it is like a night mare looking at Bush every day! It is getting more ridiculous when he “had” to read his papers at every Campaign? He should know everything by “now”. Kerry does not always read his paper, he knows everything like it is on the back of his hand like a Map. Bush unsure of anything had to read the paper to make sure he is on top of everything. But the thing is it is all about 9/11 and War on Terrorism. What else is there?! Keep on forgetting the important programs that American People needed the most. Kerry keeps on bring up the Health Care, Job Loss, Prescription, Education, the Economy and sure still crack down on Terrorists.

    Teacher Vet, still not answering my question about what you think of Bin Laden Videotape?

  311. TeacherVet Says:

    bin Laden? Obviously, he represents/personifies one of Kerry’s greatest hopes in his personal quest, and is trying to help him get rid of al Qaida’s biggest foe. Why does it matter what I think of a terrorists videotape? I am somewhat relieved by it because:

    He is obviously weakened by the loss of 75% of his leadership and the inability to move money and murderers, so the only way he can terrorize peaceniks at this time is to threaten via videotape. He is trying to influence another election by the only means available.

    You are revolted by Bush’s face, but your hopes are raised by the countenance of Osama bin Laden? I shouldn’t be surprised – he is equally filled with hatred for George Bush.

  312. TeacherVet Says:

    I am ready to accept the probability that John Kerry will win the election on Tuesday, either by hook or by crook, but I cannot resist the temptation to predict some rather obvious negative effects of that outcome.

    1st, and most important: John Kerry led a concerted, well-executed movement to divide this country; probably irreparably. In the aftermath of the disastrous mid-term elections of 2002 I understand why the Democratic Party found it necessary to create such division, with control of the House, the Senate, and the White House in the hands of the opposition party. He has led in the creation of a living Hell, and will have to try to govern in the society he helped to create. He created an atmosphere of civil war proportions, and…Good luck!

    2nd: Kerry has made promises to force the “rich” to finance the country, and says he will not increase taxes on the middle class. (Keep in mind that Bill Clinton also campaigned on tax relief, then changed his mind as soon as he got into office). He will either have to renege on all promises he has made, or simply submit to the monster he has created. He will face insurmountable opposition from the House, although, at the present time, he probably thinks the majority party will either a) “do the un-Democratic Party thing” by trying to cooperate or b) be too ignorant to remember the charges of incompetence, stupidity, lying, etc. If he manages to get ANY of his agenda through the House, he will have an even tougher job in the Congress – he has alienated that body to an even greater degree. Good luck!

    3rd: He will renege on all his promises in the War on Terror. He is a “fighter” with his apparently impressive slick-talking attorney rhetoric, but his well-established core beliefs belie all of his promises. Many are convinced of his toughness and resolve because his request for a Silver Star was granted after he killed a wounded soldier, but neither that nor his empty talk will have any effect on bin Laden. He has never faced an enemy who displayed an eagerness to die for their cause. With history as our greatest teacher, I am forced to submit that he will probably follow his behavioral practice of the past; I expect him to try to normalize relations with al Qaida to “win them over,” which will be a mistake with disastrous and deadly consequences.

    4th: He will blame all of his own failures on “the previous administration,” paraphrasing his greatest mantra. He will feel justified in doing so citing that “the previous administration” acknowledged the coming recession of 2001 based on economic figures that were beginning to decline in the last quarter of 2000.

    5th: IF he continues with the Iraq War, which he has often said we “must win” (of course he has also said it is the “wrong war, etc.”), he will likely push for some kind of draft. He promises to send in 2 more full battalions, even though there is no place to put them, while acknowledging that his 40,000 additional troops do not exist at present. If he is wise and humble enough to listen to the military leadership in charge of operations, people such as Tommy Franks who had “everything I needed, including troop strength and equipment”, he will conveniently forget his promise of increased troop strength.

    6th: If he continues any of the current self-defense actions of the military, he will face instances of misbehavior by individual and small groups of troops (a historical fact in every war because troops are human beings, thereby prone to mistakes and misbehavior. According to the National Archives, in the European theater alone during World War II, 443 of our own soldiers were sentenced to death for war zone offenses). When such instances as the prison “scandal” and the “missing explosives” scandal surface, he will finally acknowledge reality – while the “buck” supposedly stops at the Oval Office, he will declare some variation of the following true and accurate statement: “THE COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF DOES NOT CONDUCT ON-THE-GROUND OPERATIONS”.

    7th: Same IF: a) There will be continued civilian casualties; that is an unfortunate fact of war, especially in an urban environment. b) There will be continued casualties of our troops; also an unfortunate fact of war.

    8th: Jobs: a) At no point in his term(s) of office will the unemployment rate manage to dip below 5.4%. I believe that the vast majority (but not all) of today’s unemployed are content with their government dependency. b) He will finally recognize that presidential policy does not create jobs – jobs are created by the business sector and the economy itself. c) When we suffer the next massive terrorist attack on our economy we will lose jobs; those jobs will not be replaced immediately, regardless of policies, intentions, hopes, etc., and he will appropriately and justifiably deny personal responsibility. His followers will repeat that mantra with frequency, and his distracters will remind him that George Bush was personally blamed for job loss, appropriately and justifiably.

    9th: If the minimum wage is increased to $7.00, two things must happen; small businesses will employ fewer people and the cost will be passed on to the customer. Don’t be surprised if the cost of a meal at Mickey D’s immediately doubles.

    10th: Kerry’s overseas friends, especially the French and German governments, will not forgive us for interrupting their tremendous profits from the Saddam regime and his Oil-for-Food program.

    For now I am limiting this to a 10-question test of my educated prognostication prowess, plus a bonus following – I have Lesson Plans to complete.

    BONUS: In the coming months, there will be a found a plethora of Kerry votes cast by fictitious characters, probably enough to throw the election in a few key states – and Kerry will never apologize or admit to any mistakes! His followers will simultaneously support and deny those votes, even in the face of insurmountable proof.

    I wish this entire dissertation was a joke, but unfortunately it is not.

  313. TeacherVet Says:

    I didn’t have opportunity to glue myself to the TV today. Did Al Gore try to maintain the slave-hold on minorities by making any last-minute statements about “black churches” that are “going to burn” if Bush is reelected? Anything about how “blacks will be delegated to conditions reminiscent of the 1950s?” Anything other desperate scare tactics – or have they all been exhausted?

  314. Ponyboy Says:

    No, I don’t think the scare tactics are quite over yet TeacherVet….I seen Dick Cheney on TV telling some voters that if Kerry wins America will blow up.

    All this aside for a second, I want to thank TeacherVet for continuing to come back and support his position. Agree with him or not, he kept coming back and standing his ground, and in a free country ahead of an election that’s what its all about. Thanks for the debate TeacherVet, you did raise some good points, among the questionable ones.

    Is it just me or did Bin Laden almost look “presedential” on that tape? He seemed much more calm and actually looks a lot better than in the past, more healthy it would seem. I think he may have realized that no matter how much he hates western values, he is not going to gain anything by continuing kill innocents. Its almost as if he wanted to enter into negotiations, by implying that he deosn’t want to fight and wants muslim countries left alone. Did anybody else get this feeling from the tape?

  315. TeacherVet Says:

    Thanks, Ponyboy. I didn’t come to this site expecting to change anyone’s mind – all of the contributors on this site were obviously firm in their resolve, and it would have been foolish to do anything except try to present reasonable arguments.

    Is it just me, or has there been an easing (though certainly not a void) of the really mean-spirited language on this site in the last several days? If so, my purpose has been served. I fully expect Kerry to become our next president, but I fear that he will be in “gridlock city” throughout his tenure because of the civil war environment he created to gain the position.

    I am anti-Kerry, but not anti-Democratic Party – I am a descendant of Texas’ own John Nance Garner, Vice-President under FDR for his first two terms. Unfortunately, that Democratic Party no longer seems to exist. My arguments have always been against a man for whom I have no trust, rather than purely political partisanship, and I actually pity the poor guy for the challenges he will surely face.

    My students do not know which way I lean, because I play the role of devil’s advocate on both sides with them. I get a lot of material for the “pro-Kerry” stance from hate sites, but I try to present the few legitimate arguments I can discern without using the hateful, abusive rhetoric. Hard to believe, but today I had a student who supported his pro-Kerry stance because “Bush met with the brother of bin Laden on the night of 9/11.” Such ridiculous statements most commonly come from the pro-Kerry side.

    Sorry if I have offended anyone, as I did not purposely attack any of you. Best of luck to all of us!

  316. Ponyboy Says:

    TeacherVet you’re right about the comments that student made to you about the bin laden brother meeting.

    I too abserved something similar with thousands of Americans, that they beleived that Saddam was involed in 9/11, but these thoughts weren’t gained through a hate web site, they came over and over out of the mouths of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney.

    It’s been a ride, may the best man win.

    Peace Out.

    Ponyboy (from Canada :-)

  317. TeacherVet Says:

    I have never been able to find the quote from either Bush or Cheney alleging Saddam with 9/11 involvement – only misquotes and inferences – but any allegations against them seems to be “fair” in this campaign, whether truthful or not. Certainly they did claim that he was a host to terrorists and their activities, but strangely, since I live in America, I have never met anyone who believed he contributed to the actual events of 9/11. Certainly he led the celebration in the streets of Iraq after 3,000 of our citizens were murdered on that day, and that did cause increased animosity against him. If Kerry wins with all of the false allegations, God help us. He scares me to death!

    Best wishes to all…


    Bill Fisher
    Georgia, Tennessee, Virginia, North Carolina, and Kentucky, USA
    (but I’m registered to vote in only one of those states) :)

  318. Ponyboy Says:

    LOL – I hope so TeacherVet!!

  319. TeacherVet Says:

    Well, the polls close in 1:03, so we find out from Dan Rather in about 1:04 who won the election when he announces the winner to discourage voters in the Panhandle. Wonder who he’ll declare the winner?

  320. Leberwurst Says:

    It looks like it is going to be a sad day for America, and the rest of the world.

    I can’t believe that your folk would choose a man who who chooses war above peace, who is a Christian (thou shall not kill) and is against abortion, but for the death penalty, who is against homosexuality (who just happen to be humans too) and homo-marriages, who lies to you and has stolen all of your money etc etc…

    I am still hoping that John Kerry will win, but unfortunately it doesn’t look like it. Let’s see how everyone feels about this in four years. God bless us all!!!

  321. All-American Says:

    Well, folks, that´s it…America was a nice country, should be remembered, too bad it died today.

    I´m moving out, South America perhaps…try to live in a country I´m not too ashamed of.

    Iraqis, Afghans, Palestines…really sorry, please try to forgive 49% of us.

    The remainder 51% will go right on being the chosen people of God, bombing, invading and killing whole countries, all in the sanctimonious name of their “Lord”.

    Thank this “God” I´m not one of his “chosen”, I´d rather go to hell as a man than go to heaven a butcher!

    Farewell and good riddance, self-righteous scourge of Earth!

  322. Ponyboy Says:

    Oh noooooooooooooooooooo! Is this for real? Did America re-elect this clown?

    May god have mercy on your souls.

  323. Ponyboy Says:

    TeacherVet fixed it didn’t he. I blame TeacherVet! :-)

  324. Leberwurst Says:

    SAD, SAD, SAD, SAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    A very sad day in history!

  325. Ralph Says:

    Keep on fighting for a peaceful world… You have far too much responsability to give up now.
    I really hope that you keep on being active oponents of those imperialistic politics. And keep in mind, you are a great country, but you still represent only about 5% of the world…
    Good Luck!

  326. Anon Says:

    I hope osama or his mama comes back and kick 51% of your asses. right wing bigots ….

  327. Shock and Awe Says:

    Shock and awe, that’s all I can say!!! It’s gonna be fun from here on…

  328. HATE BUSH Says:

    I still can not believe that bush was re-elected…how can people vote for him?? have they not seen all the bad things he has done to america, and all the lies he told us???? oooo lord…another four years of lies and of a dumb leader!!!


  329. BJ in AZ Says:

    I have been despondent since Wed. All day I felt like I had ice water running through my veins. I can only describe it as raw fear at the idea of 4 more years. I saw 20 year olds crying and people are really devastated over the outcome of this. I’ve never had this reaction to any previous election. I think the country and WORLD will pay dearly for this decision. Just like Anthy and I agreed would happen, the dollar today is “crumbling”. It’s not that I thought that Kerry would bring instant relief to my “hanging by a thread” situation, but there was HOPE that he would focus on AMERICA. WHAT’S TO SAVE FROM TERRORISM IF THE COUNTRY AND AMERICA’S LIFESTYLE HAS GONE TO HELL for 85%-95% of the people? He has already drained us dry. Pity us and future AMERICAN generations.

    Maybe the flu will kill us all this winter anyway, then we won’t have to deal with it all. Drowned out by the pre-election static was the announcement Mon. by the World Health Organization that they were calling an “EMERGENCY SUMMIT” in Geneva next week, to talk about the possible flu pandemic that could kill millions this year! And NO ONE in Washington or even the media is talkng about it. Amazing. Are they SURE people really voted because of values? What about the value in the idea of “live and let live” and taking care of each other?

  330. Bushinenergizer Says:

    I agree with you all except Teacher Vet and Amanda, it is indeed a very very Sad day since the Dumb Right Wing Christians People re-elected Bush once again…I guess they do like to kill People…and always wants to be the winner.

    One American asked to marry me so he can move to Canada, can you believe that?! America so divided and Bush will wake up in the morning finding half of the Americans moving out of the Country! Now why is that? Is that because they are out of shame? or Out of greatest fear that the USA will be attacked once again? Attacked like the 9/11 and bankrupted USA? It could happen again soon. Bin Laden told everyone so.

    Everyone is right, May God bless America because we will need it bad when the time comes. Would be a good idea to save your money in your mattress! Since the USA will be bankrupted soon! All the Thanks to Bush! That there are more deaths more than ever in Iraq and Afghanistan. Every morning, I wake up, there is always 30 People dead and USA Soldier’s names announced on TV News. May you live with that for the rest of your Lives, the ones who voted for Bush! Please Bush Voters, do yourself a favour, don’t complain to us about your Health Care, the Job Loss, the Prescriptions, the Education, the Gas Prices at all, after all you voted for Bush! Keep your mouths shut! We can complain all we want because we did not vote for Bush. We have every right to complain about our high premiums, high prescriptions charge, high gas prices…and the list goes on…

    May God have mercy on you all! Good luck in the next four more years! I will be here praying to God and Jesus Christ for Peace every day! That is what I am going to do! Spread the Love all around the World, not killing each other. The time will come as the Armmedegon and Destruction will come and wipe out the World of all Evil things. If Christians believe, they should know what Relevation fortells a Prophecy. It said five out of Seven had fallen. Look at this way: Afghanistan had fallen, that is one, Iraq has fallen that is second, Spain had fallen, that is third, British will be fallen, as Blair will be down and USA will be the Fifth- the bankrupting of
    USA and more attacks to come. Religions will be attacked. Two of them are Christian versus Muslims. I guess God must have a purpose to keep Bush on, because he will be involved in all of this to be fallen- the one of the fallen Kings to be seen out of Seven Kings and the UN Nations. Worth thinking about, go read the Bible of Revelation 17, if you don’t believe, then why the hell you vote for this Clown? Like my Friend in America, he said we will be all DOOMED to HELL!!! He is right.

    Peace and Out!
    (Concerned about the World Outcome)

  331. Michael Moore Says:

    Ok, it sucks. Really sucks. But before you go and cash it all in, let’s, in
    the words of Monty Python, ‘always look on the bright side of life!’ There
    IS some good news from Tuesday’s election.

    Here are 17 reasons not to slit your wrists:

    1. It is against the law for George W. Bush to run for president again.

    2. Bush’s victory was the NARROWEST win for a sitting president since
    Woodrow Wilson in 1916.

    3. The only age group in which the majority voted for Kerry was young adults
    (Kerry: 54%, Bush: 44%), proving once again that your parents are always
    wrong and you should never listen to them.

    4. In spite of Bush’s win, the majority of Americans still think the
    country is headed in the wrong direction (56%), think the war wasn’t worth fighting (51%), and don’t approve of the job George W. Bush is doing (52%). (Note to foreigners: Don’t try to figure this one out. It’s an American thing, like Pop Tarts.)

    5. The Republicans will not have a filibuster-proof 60-seat majority in the
    Senate. If the Democrats do their job, Bush won’t be able to pack the
    Supreme Court with right-wing ideologues. Did I say “if the Democrats do
    their job?” Um, maybe better to scratch this one.

    6. Michigan voted for Kerry! So did the entire Northeast, the birthplace of
    our democracy. So did 6 of the 8 Great Lakes States. And the whole West
    Coast! Plus Hawaii. Ok, that’s a start. We’ve got most of the fresh water,
    all of Broadway, and Mt. St. Helens. We can dehydrate them or bury them in
    lava. And no more show tunes!

    7. Once again we are reminded that the buckeye is a nut, and not just any
    old nut — a poisonous nut. A great nation was felled by a poisonous nut.
    May Ohio State pay dearly this Saturday when it faces Michigan.

    8. 88% of Bush’s support came from white voters. In 50 years, America will
    no longer have a white majority. Hey, 50 years isn’t such a long time! If
    you’re ten years old and reading this, your golden years will be truly
    golden and you will be well cared for in your old age.

    9. Gays, thanks to the ballot measures passed on Tuesday, cannot get married
    in 11 new states. Thank God. Just think of all those wedding gifts we won’t
    have to buy now.

    10. Five more African Americans were elected as members of Congress,
    including the return of Cynthia McKinney of Georgia. It’s always good to
    have more blacks in there fighting for us and doing the job our candidates

    11. The CEO of Coors was defeated for Senate in Colorado. Drink up!

    12. Admit it: We like the Bush twins and we don’t want them to go away.

    13. At the state legislative level, Democrats picked up a net of at least 3
    chambers in Tuesday’s elections. Of the 98 partisan-controlled state
    legislative chambers (house/assembly and senate), Democrats went into the
    2004 elections in control of 44 chambers, Republicans controlled 53
    chambers, and 1 chamber was tied. After Tuesday, Democrats now control 47
    chambers, Republicans control 49 chambers, 1 chamber is tied and 1 chamber
    (Montana House) is still undecided.

    14. Bush is now a lame duck president. He will have no greater moment than
    the one he’s having this week. It’s all downhill for him from here on out —
    and, more significantly, he’s just not going to want to do all the hard work
    that will be expected of him. It’ll be like everyone’s last month in 12th
    grade — you’ve already made it, so it’s party time! Perhaps he’ll treat the
    next four years like a permanent Friday, spending even more time at the
    ranch or in Kennebunkport. And why shouldn’t he? He’s already proved his
    point, avenged his father and kicked our ass.

    15. Should Bush decide to show up to work and take this country down a very
    dark road, it is also just as likely that either of the following two
    scenarios will happen: a) Now that he doesn’t ever need to pander to the
    Christian conservatives again to get elected, someone may whisper in his ear
    that he should spend these last four years building “a legacy” so that
    history will render a kinder verdict on him and thus he will not push for
    too aggressive a right-wing agenda; or b) He will become so cocky and
    arrogant — and thus, reckless — that he will commit a blunder of such
    major proportions that even his own party will have to remove him from

    16. There are nearly 300 million Americans — 200 million of them of voting
    age. We only lost by three and a half million! That’s not a landslide — it
    means we’re almost there. Imagine losing by 20 million. If you had 58 yards
    to go before you reached the goal line and then you barreled down 55 of
    those yards, would you stop on the three yard line, pick up the ball and go
    home crying — especially when you get to start the next down on the three
    yard line? Of course not! Buck up! Have hope! More sports analogies are

    17. Finally and most importantly, over 55 million Americans voted for the
    candidate dubbed “The #1 Liberal in the Senate.” That’s more than the total
    number of voters who voted for either Reagan, Bush I, Clinton or Gore.
    Again, more people voted for Kerry than Reagan. If the media are looking for
    a trend it should be this — that so many Americans were, for the first time
    since Kennedy, willing to vote for an out-and-out liberal. The country has
    always been filled with evangelicals — that is not news. What IS news is
    that so many people have shifted toward a Massachusetts liberal. In fact,
    that’s BIG news. Which means, don’t expect the mainstream media, the ones
    who brought you the Iraq War, to ever report the real truth about November
    2, 2004. In fact, it’s better that they don’t. We’ll need the element of
    surprise in 2008.

    Feeling better? I hope so. As my friend Mort wrote me yesterday, “My
    Romanian grandfather used to say to me, ‘Remember, Morton, this is such a
    wonderful country — it doesn’t even need a president!'”

    But it needs us.


    Michael Moore

  332. BJ in AZ Says:

    Amen, I’m terrified that you are right.
    Was that posted by the REAL YOU Michael? Or did someone paste your letter from somewhere else? Thanks for the 17 reasons and the laugh, but I still want to slash. He doesn’t care how many of us didn’t want him. He’ll retreat like before, to his ivory tower, and blow us off for 4 MORE years.

  333. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Did you know the Voting Machines in Pennsylvania’s Voting Software was created by a Computer Programmer who was Bush’s Friend? There was a glitch, that makes sure the Votes for Democrat President will be voided and garbaged out.

    Ah! Bush still rigging the Election, I see…same old, same old crook he is! Never mind that…we can live with same old shit all over again…what is another four more years, right? We would be willing to see who will take the blame for the Chaos in the World and its own USA. Like somebody said, May God be with you!

    Saynora! Peace…;)

    (Didn’t you see that Guy who killed himself in the Ground Zero of World Trade Center Site? Because he was too distraught over the Bush Election— De Ja Vu all over again!!) May the Prayers go to his Family for this Loss. Amen.

  334. BJ in AZ Says:

    Where did you hear about that suicide? Is it confirmed? I heard nothing like that.

  335. Bushinenergizer Says:

    It was in the News everywhere…ABC News, NBC NEWS< CNN NEWS...the thing is they are keeping at the bottom as the least news, not of an importance...but they do acknowledge that 25 year old Georgia Man went inside of the Ground Zero of the World Trade Center Site and killed himself in there...and was reportedly that he was distraught over Bush Elections. It happened yesterday (November 6th) and New York Police is investigating how he got in...never mind HOW he got in, they should investigate what went wrong with him, just maybe getting the Blues over the Elections, and he tries to get the message across by committing the suicide inside the World Trade Center Site...I can understand the was out to make the World Known about the 3,000 Victims lost that Bush had ignored...second was because Bush got re-elected and he knew that USA is doomed to Hell. Felt sorry for his Family especially if he has a Mother out there SAD! Guess what Bush never acknowledge this kind of unfortunate and ignorant!! Just like he would ignore the needs of American Soldiers over there in Iraq, dying for their Country! Fallujah, Iraq is isolated and they are preparing for the bloodiest War ever since Hue, Vietnam, they acknowledged on the News that they said they had called them to get out of Fallujah so they can prepare the worst Bloodiest War against the Insurgents and possibly the Terrorist...who knows? It does not matter if one Fallujah City is isolated, there are more of those in Sammara, Naysriah, Najaf, Baghdad, and the list goes on, I am sure the Terrorists are hiding really well among the Iraqi Civilians...I was rather suspicious why they only isolate Fallujah? Why not Baghdad and the other Cities? They did flee to other places to hide...there is no where to find them All 100%! Perhaps some of them are in Syria, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and even Iran. They are just wishful thinking that they can stop one city of Fallujah so the January Elections will go ahead with no problems...(yea right!)

  336. anthy Says:

    Hey guys, I’m back. I had to get away from it all for awhile, superstitious a little bit, didn’t want to jinx the elections and all, plus, very frustrated. Oh, so frustrated! But the media just isn’t giving me the kind of coverage I crave, so I am back to blogging. All they keep saying in the media is for Kerry voters to “Lighten up” or “Get over it.” While I have seen/heard/read interviews with dozens of Bush voters, I have not yet once seen/heard/read a single interview with a Kerry voter post election. (Even on NPR!) My bro says this is because the media doesn’t want mass rioting. Also of course they are all getting payed off.
    Well. I can see why people are wanting to commit suicide now. Things seem so hopeless, and we aren’t allowed to express our horror. We are forced to bottle it up by the media, when they talk about Kerry at all it is about the mistakes he made. I’m going to believe that Michael Moore actually did post here, because freak’n A, all those right wingers believe our president speaks to god, so why can’t I have something to feel good and secure about! Anyway, as Michael said, Kerry did better in the elections than Prez Reagan. He didn’t do anything wrong, he did a great job!

    I too felt slightly suicidal also after the elections, but I figured, I can’t give up now. We need to keep the liberals alive. Also we need to not move out of the country, unless we did so in a mass exodus, leaving all the midwesterners completly impotent, as they would lose a great market share. Besides, we liberals are mostly city folk anyway, so we actually are the bread winners of our country.

    No no, what we need to do is stay here and stick through this. If we are feeling suicidal, then that means that we have no fear of the most fearful thing of all, death. Think of how powerful we become if we have no fear. I mean, a person could dedicate their entire life to campaigning or something positive, instead of being dead and doing nothing.

  337. Ponyboy Says:

    Excellent outlook Anthy. The fight has just begun.

    And don’t worry, you will be holding that head up high when things get tougher, and they will, because you can take comfort in knowing that YOU did not vote for this madman.

    I see more catosphrophic operations are under way in Fallujah today. Please pray for these people, we have no idea what it is like to be sitting in your kitchen eating supper when all of a sudden a cruise missle flies through the roof and kills your kids.

    Don’t worry, Bush will pay dearly for all he has done.


  338. Bushinenergizer Says:

    I agree with you, Pony Boy and Athany…NOW I can be rest assured I won’t be part of the Blame for all the chaos, killings, bankrupting of USA!!! The Bush Voters “Partcipated” in these actrious acts…killings, and accepting it as it was “okay” for them.

    Sooner or Later, they and Bush going to end up like the Fools!!

    I can see it now…Bankrupting USA just like Bin Laden evisioned and wished to achieve that goal. Today more than $7 Trillion of Dollars already in Deficit…and climbing by $31 Billion. And when the strike will strike the Stock Market “hitting” the right target just like Bin Laden had indicated to do so in near future. The USA will see the horror of Bankruptcy. I think it is right for People to move out of the Country to prevent losing your money there! Bush has had indicated everyone to invest their Social Security in Private Investments in the Stock Market…is he Stupid or what??? That is where Bin Laden is targeting!! I am just glad I live in Canada…USA may or may not affect us while they go down with bankruptcy. Who knows? I don’t know and I cannot tell the future, but I know this for sure, that Bin Laden never backs down on his word! He is always true to his Word, every time!

    God Bless you (Bush Voters and Bush Administration) and Good Luck when the bankruptcy will take place soon. I am saving my money and paying off my Credit Card Now even though if it is Christmas soon…I am just taking precautions and you should do the same. Put your Money in your Mattress and pay off your bills while you can. Better safe than sorry like that fateful day on 9/11.:~

  339. Bushinenergizer Says:

    OH BTW–don’t invest your Social Security in the Stock Market or it will be gone!

    Fallujah, yes I saw the News, and it is drastic and terrible news that they are forcing Men inside the City…even the innocent ones…and the women,children are free to go…but they are keeping all the Men inside Fallujah…to be killed or not to be killed…we don’t know…but my guess that the majority of Insurgents and Terrorists went elsewhere hiding….The Loyalists will remain and fight for their Allah. But they (USA Military, Iraqi Forces, and Briton are faced with other 12 Cities that has Insurgents…12 other Cities!!! that is alot to deal with…just when the Iraq Elections are just around the Corner!! They thought dealing with Fallujah will solve the problem, but I think not! They still have Samarra, Ramadi, Nasirayah, Baghdad…and the list goes on…12 other Cities with these Terrorists and Insurgents…but there are more…in Syria, Saudia Arabia, even Kuwait….on and on…even in the Whole World!!! Bush Administration CANNOT beat them all…and they are thinking of invading Iran??? mmmm is that a good idea? or invading other Countries? While the Deficit is $7 Trillion????

  340. Mike Says:

    WASHINGTON (AP) — President Bush is holding fast to his rejection of mandatory curbs on greenhouse gases that are blamed for global warming, despite a fresh report from 300 scientists in the United States and seven other nations that shows Arctic temperatures are rising.

    This week, a four-year study of the Arctic documented that the region is warming rapidly, affecting global climates.

    Scientists project that industrial gases such as carbon dioxide will make the Arctic warmer still, which would raise the level of the seas and make the earth hotter. The world’s atmosphere now includes about 380 parts per million of carbon dioxide, compared with 280 parts per million in 1800, according to scientists.

    Russian President Vladimir Putin signed the Kyoto international climate treaty last week, which puts it into effect early next year without U.S. participation. The treaty requires industrial nations to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases below 1990 levels.

    “President Bush strongly opposes any treaty or policy that would cause the loss of a single American job, let alone the nearly 5 million jobs Kyoto would have cost,” said James Connaughton, chairman of the White House Council on Environmental Quality.


    Canada has the strongest economy in the G7(8), and they implemented Kyoto 4 years ago. The US is the biggest polluter in the world and yet Bush will not sign a treaty that tries to combat this problem?

    What a fucken idiot.

    Thanks right-wing religous freaks, you just gave me four more years to bitch about this moron. Gives me somethin to do.


  341. Bushinenergizer Says:

    Mike: I agree that Bush is the fucking idiot…he does not care about the Environment, period. He favours the Oil Companies to make profits than the polluting of its Companies are spewing…he does not care as long he get the profits coming in.

    Oh by the way, did you know that Bush is thinking about a “go ahead” of drilling in Alaska WildLife Refuge??? Drilling for more Oil for himself and USA. That process will damage the Wild Life and the Global Warming more at a rapid speed. The Polar Bear up there are already on Endangered Species….Bush does not care if they die or not. He just wants drilling and polluting in order to get the Oil and its Profits. What a Greedy Bastard. And the Right Wing Christians Republicans just helped Bush just to do that. Destroying the Environment- the biggest enemy to tackle with Pollution and the like….I sure hope the Christians will wake up that they are destroying the WildLife and everything else in it. Destroying the Environment. Thanks for that, now all our next Generations will be losing these things….we need the Oceans, we need the WildLife and the Water, Trees to balance the World’s Order. That is why we get sick and sicker with diseases and Cancer because we are not taking care of Environment. :(

  342. Matt Says:

    Let me say up-front that I’m a uniter, not a divider. But speaking as a blue-state resident, maybe I’ve been a fool.

    It’s bad enough that the red states elected President Bush and sent the blues into a psychic tailspin. bush wins: upper west side put on suicide watch reads a T-shirt in Manhattan. Shrinks in Beverly Hills say they’ve been stampeded by despairing patients. “People … pretty much believe American society is permanently destroyed,” a Washington, D.C., psychiatrist told the Los Angeles Times. Jon Stewart captured the blue zeitgeist when he mused that Bush’s ascent atop a tide of evangelicals was “their revenge for us controlling what’s on TV.”

    Overwrought? Perhaps. But it’s time blue America realized it controls more than just the nation’s output of immoral culture, abortions on demand, and gay weddings. It also controls the purse strings. And that suggests a strategy.

    As students of the federal budget know, the citizens of some states pay more in taxes than they get back from Uncle Sam in grants and benefits. The late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan commissioned frequent studies that showed how New York was getting the shaft. Arnold Schwarzenegger was stunned to learn upon taking office that for every dollar Californians send to Washington, they get back only 77 cents—an imbalance that topped $50 billion in 2003.

    But a new analysis in The Great Divide: Retro vs. Metro America, a coffee-table book/political rant by liberal billionaire John Sperling, shows that a fiscal map looks awfully like an electoral map. (Lest you think this is all just liberal bias, the right-leaning Tax Foundation supplies similar data.) Between 1991 and 2001, “winner” states got nearly $1 trillion more in federal benefits than they paid in taxes. Alabama won the biggest, raking in $100 billion. Losers California, New York, and Illinois each paid $250 billion or so more than they got back. The huge gaps are driven by higher average incomes in the “donor” states, plus subsidies for farms, oil, mining—”extractive” industries that skew red. There are exceptions (Texas is a loser, Pennsylvania a winner), but the map on this page shows the big picture. The heist is more impressive considering that the winners have only a third of the U.S. population.

    For blue staters, it’s one thing to watch red states pick the President and set national policy on everything from Iraq to judges. But to pay them lavishly for the pleasure suggests that blues aren’t just losers, they’re stupid losers. You can feel blue anger rising. You reds don’t like taxes? Okay, stop taking mine! You can have your states’ rights too—and we’ll start by cutting your allowance!

    No wonder the hot topic in Blueland is federalism, which now seems a source of, ahem, salvation. It starts with getting red states off the blue gravy train. But “the new federalism,” as Jonathan Taplin of the University of Southern California writes, could go further. “Ultimately,” Taplin says, “the citizens of the blue states have a right to live with clean air, efficient automobiles, good schools, honest corporations, and universal health care. Their desire to build a sustainable civilization is not a new quest.” Think of it as virtual secession without the Gettysburgs.

    But I don’t really want to go there. The U.S. isn’t as divided as the hype suggests, and Moynihan himself never said state payments should be even-steven. “There is a national idea” behind this pattern, Moynihan wrote, “which is no more and no less than that we are all in this together.”

    Still, this election would have steamed even Moynihan. Red states shouldn’t even want blue money, what with it coming from gun-confiscating pinkos on their way to hell. Cutting off that tainted cash would be doing reds a favor. That’s my opening position, anyway. The jig’s up. Nice federal highway system you have there, Alabama. I’d hate to see anything happen to it….

  343. BJ in AZ Says:

    I am still sick and scared over Bush winning. You’re right, how can Christians agree with all his agendas in good conscience? Do those people only need to hear the word “God” and think that everything he does is the Godly thing to do? It’s so sad. Is it God’s plan for Bush to save other countries and let our own kids go to bed hungry? It’s OK to be oppressed by poverty in the US, but NOT be oppressed by a man across the sea? I would think that the Bush Christians (I am a christian, but I don’t relate to them), would feel duped, knowing it was purely a political campaign stratagy to garner their vote by putting the gay marriage proposition on the ballod in 11 key states. It gives me the chills. His strategist was a very smart SHEPARD! Remember the sheep I mentioned before this even came in heavy at the end? They needed somewhere to go and needed to be led.

    Where are all the “separation of church and state” zealots now????? I think Bush went WAY out of line even bringing it into the election. People knew he goes to church. (BFD. Alot of the creepy, slimy jerks I’ve ever known, also go to church). It was so obvious to me the minute he decided to play that up. It was what he HAD to do, since he just couldn’t get ahead in the polls.

    This win was about VALUES????? PLEASE!!! I think Kerry has MUCH deeper, down-to-earth values and integrity than Bush could even dream about possessing. Kerry even said that he would tweak his big programs as we went along. In our extremely complex and fluid society, this make far more sense to me that Bush saying, “I have a plan and I’ll never waver!!” Vote for me!, because I’m a stubborn, small minded, and tunnel visioned son-of-a-gun!!!!

  344. BW in La. Says:

    Where is everyone? Loved all your comments free speech at its finest.
    Now everyone knows Bush is a idiot but that is not the point,his
    reelection marks the start of the decline of our country.How can the
    greatest nation in the world let a dick like Bush be reelected is a
    real travesty.
    Also we assured ourselves of another terrorist attack on election day
    by putting this idiot back in office.He and his cronies are a threat
    to our national security.
    Also didn’t Donald Rumsfield look just as stupid in front of our troops? I can’t believe he said you have to fight as you are in
    the army. I thought it was thier job to put the best equiped,trained
    and battle ready force possible in the field during wartime.
    Guess Rumsfield has joined the league of idiots too.Don’t even get me started on Iraq or we will be here all night.

  345. BW in La. Says:

    Rumsfield found out these are not just a bunch of farm boys and gals
    they are bright educated well trained young people who want to do their jobs and are beyond ready to come home.
    Oh yeah a day of retribution is coming and its gonna be nasty when it happens.

  346. BW in La. Says:

    Do you talk about issues or just whine about election results? HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  347. BW in La. Says:

    One last comment our (I guess)president was named 2004 man of the year by Newsweek magazine.How scary is that!

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